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Thread: A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

  1. #11
    Beverly Hills, California
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    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    Enough on this stupid fire.

  2. #12

    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    Agreed. Mr. Simmons deserves all of our respect for the honesty and directness of his letter. As for Mr. Fatali, I remember a posting some time ago when the NPS began to restrict vehicle traffic in Zion NP and the outrage several members of "our" community expressed at not being able to drive right to the spot where they wanted to set up their equipment. It was my impression that a greater portion of the LF photographers were willing to make small transgressions in the name of their art than we would like to admit. While its easy to pick on Mr. Fatali, for various reasons, how many of us were a little envious for not thinking of using artificial logs before.

  3. #13

    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    As a non-US citizen who has never heard of Fatali, nor seen any of his work, I don't feel entitled to comment on this incident, but the overall issue of photography and conservation is one that's dear to me.I think incidents such as this are to be condemned, but are a drop in the ocean against the non-conservationist tide that seems to be engulfing the whole world.I'm thinking, at the moment, of the current spate of advertising campaigns for 4 wheel drive 'off-road' vehicles. The thrust of the advertising seems to be:"you can drive anywhere in these babies, and who cares if you wreck the scenery for everyone else? It's there for your pleasure, and yours alone, because you can afford a gas guzzling monstrosity that you'll mostly use to take the kids to school in anyway"Now some photographer shoots the footage for those ads, some dickhead thinks up the campaign, some copy writer scripts them, and another photographer shoots the stills for the follow-up poster campaign. Surely they are all far more deserving of our unconditional condemnation.

    I apologise for the diversion from the main thrust of this thread, but the Fatali affair really does strike me as just one tiny, almost insignificant incident in very much larger issue.

  4. #14

    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    Fortunately, Pete, in the US, most of those SUV's (that the NPR Car Talk guys call "Stupid Useless Vehicles") are never taken off road except to illegally pass on the shoulder when the drivers are too impatient running the kids to school to wait for a turning car.

  5. #15

    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    Thank you Kevin for stating the truth. If we should learn anything, it is the fact that we have all caused damage of greater consequences than Mr Fatali's unfortunate misjudgement. I certainly cannot hold him more liable than myself, even tho there seems to be a more direct result from his actions than may be from mine.

    We seem to have a tendency to act like this world will go on forever unchanged and will be there for our children to enjoy as we have had. At least we want this. The unfortunate truth is, is that we have doomed our children and their children to exist in a world far different from the pristine one that existed before our ancestors came, and for that matter, what we are able to enjoy today. We have literally raped the earth, poisened it, and killed its inhabitants and animals all in the cause of living the good life, and then have the audacity to critize another when we can't even take responsibility for our own actions like they don't exist, like their someone elses. Why don't we compare the burn Mr Fatali put on the rock to the multitudes of species we have managed to destroy, or the ozone layer for that matter. If you think that you didn't have a part in it, keep on living in wonderland. If you have paid any attention to the future as told to us by world organizations researching global greenhouse warming conditions, you have learned that they paint a very dark picture for the future of the whole human race. Compare that to the scarred rock. And what is even more unfortunate is everyone jumping on their high horse like they are the perfect enviromentalist. If we would put as much effort into holding the Government accountable for their enviromental actions, as Mr Fatlli, maybe would would have alot more left; Like the world. Personally, I am as guilty as he is, and because of that will forgive him his trespases. I only hope others will forgive mine.

  6. #16

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    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    Mr. Crider's answer is close to what I would have hoped for the first time around. I am sure we have all done something to the environment that we would like to take back (please do not accuse me of defending Mr. Fatali - I've had enough of that attitude!). I was stunned at the first line of discussion that came through here a few weeks ago. The anger directed at me for publishing Fatali's photographs seemed viscious and very personal at me. I was even accused of accepting Mr. Fatali's ad as a payoff to look the other way and publish his material. (Please note - none of my accusers had the integrity to even call and ask me what happened before attacking me.)

    My disappointment came from two sources. First the attacks and their visciousness. Secondly, as I began to explore the issue I became very disappointed at the facts as I uncovered them. Even Michael did not tell me, even after I asked him, about the extent of the fires.

    I have two hopes for this experience. First, that all of us will become more conscious of how we live on this earth and how respectful we must be. Secondly, if anyone has a problem with soemthing published in View Camera please pickup the phone or e-mail me and ask.

    steve simmons

  7. #17

    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    Mr Simmons,

    After you have behaved so well, please don't dissapoint me by siding with Mr. Crider (who has definitely missed the point!!). If anyone wants to discuss how the human race is destroying the Earth in this forum, by all means let's do it; but please start another thread!! To even begin to compare these greater destructive forces to what Fatali did is absurd!!!

    Although Fatali didn't start digging an open pit mine at the base of Delicate Arch, Fatali's actions were unfathomable, unforgiveable, and criminal!! I can't believe people fail to understand and/or accept this.

  8. #18

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    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    There's an almost poetic irony to all this when you consider that the trail leading up to Delicate Arch was cut with jack hammers.

    bw

  9. #19

    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    Dear Mr. Arnold,

    I'm usually very reluctant to jump into this kind of political debates. However, I feel strongly that, with all respect to your love for the environment, you have gone from extreme to "extremely" extreme! I'm also quite sure that many fellow participants of this LARGE FORMAT FORUM will agree with me on this. If you would like to continue to participate in this forum, please observe a few general rules. First of all, No personal attacks. Mr. Simmons has done the best he could, I believe, to clean up this messy issue and a great job to keep View Camera magazine up and running; and Mr. Crider and Mr. Kolosky just spoke the naked truth! On environmental issues, politically, their views might be slightly different from yours, but that does not give you any right(s) to verbally abuse them. What do you mean "After you have behaved so well, please don't dissapoint me by siding with Mr. Crider (who has definitely missed the point!!)" Let me say this from another angle. Your freedom of speech is NOT equal, by any means, to your freedom of abusing your fellow countrymen. Quite clearly, it seems to me nobody gets your "Point", and that's your own fault: your capability to communicate clearly. Secondly, No personal classified ads. It's not up to your judgement call whether Mr. Fatali is a criminal (you need to first fully understand the legal definition of the term "criminal" and don't abuse it). Please remember that our country is a country with laws, and you are not above the laws! Yes, Mr. Fatali has done something stupid, but as Mr. Simmons indicated that there is an ongoing investigation by the National Park Services and the Salt Lake Office of the U.S. Attorney General. Let's leave the matter to the authorities, and stop calling Mr. Fatali criminal, please. Keep your politically motivated personal "ads" off this forum, and don't start any fire here!

    Once you calm down, please think hard to see whether you have done anything, I mean anything, to harm our beloved earth. For example, do you drive a car? Do you know the US is the number one carbon dioxide per capita polluter in the world? That's 20 metric tons carbon dioxide per capita per year. This impact is far more severe, on the global scale, than burning a mark at your front door step. So if you drive a car, you are as guilty as Mr. Fatali burning a mark on a National Park rock! If you think controlling the carbon dioxide pollution is important to you, please write to your congressperson(s), senetor(s), and president Bush to get back to the Kyoto Protocol at once. Thank you!

    Let's put this Fatali incident behind us, and move on!

  10. #20

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    A note by Steve Simmons about the Fatali incident

    Bruce, What Mr. Fatali did was to misrepresent himself and to leave a mess. A mess that would neither have been illegal nor particularly messy if the crime scene was a non ?preserved? area. We can debate the merit of his intentions and the consequences of his act but there comes a time when you have to put them in context.

    I agree with Pete in a previous post ?.?the Fatali affair really does strike me as just one tiny, almost insignificant incident in a very much larger issue?. And that is what prompted my initial comment.

    Mr. Fatali will get his comeuppance in the marketplace and at the hands of the law?.without any expression of indignity on my part. That leaves the smudge as being the only other matter of consequence. Will the Park Service view this as significant enough to restrict access?? I doubt it. Movie crews have been leaving smudges on rocks for many years?. without a lot of uproar. For me, the only issues of any significance are preservation and the permanence of the scars. bw

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