Ferri help requested

[Erik Larsen]

Hi folks,
I need a little advice please. Is it necessary to refix a print that I have used ferri on to selectively lighten some highlights? My process is as follows.
1.develop in dektol
2.stop in water
3.fix in tf4
4.Then I would take the fixed print without washing the fixer out and apply
a very dilute solution of ferri to whatever I need lightening
5. Wash bleach off for a few minutes
6. Place in selenium
7. HCA
8.wash for an hour

My uncertainty is do I need to refix after bleaching or because I am
using the bleach on a fixer saturated print is that enough to make it stable?
I have done both refix and no fix after bleaching and I much prefer the
results with no refix. The refix can sometimes cause a yellowish stain
which doesn't happen if I don't refix.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
regards
Erik

[Brian Ellis]

The procedure described by Ansel Adams in "The Print" is as follows:

Make sure the print is properly fixed and thoroughly washed
Let the print dry unless you're just doing local bleaching, in which case do it wet.
Apply the bleach
Rinse the print
Immerse it in a fixing bath for a few minutes
Rinse
HCA
Rinse
Thoroughly wash

He says the purpose of the fix after bleaching is to minimize the possibility of staining.

This is the method I used back in the old darkroom days.

[Erik Larsen]

Thanks Brian, not the answer I wanted I was hoping since the print was already fixer saturated that I could eliminate another fix. sort of a farmers reducers application without actually mixing up a bleach/fix solution.
thanks again
Erik

[domenico Foschi]

I was going to respond to refix it.
But the aspect you raise of not getting the ugly yellow stain is interesting.
I cannot help you with your question, but I will do some tests as well.

[Glenn Thoreson]

The fixer serves only one pupose, to remove the unexposed silver halides. Once that has been accomplished, further fixing, it seems to me, would serve no purpose. If you are not getting any stains, which you shouldn't with dilute bleach, I would keep doing what you're doing. If you are selenium toning, any and all siver will be converted to silver selenides and will be permanent. No issue that I can see.

[domenico Foschi]

The fixer serves only one pupose, to remove the unexposed silver halides. Once that has been accomplished, further fixing, it seems to me, would serve no purpose. If you are not getting any stains, which you shouldn't with dilute bleach, I would keep doing what you're doing. If you are selenium toning, any and all siver will be converted to silver selenides and will be permanent. No issue that I can see.

When sepia toning warm toned paper and trying to achieve toning only in the highlights, I need to immerse the print immediately in a fix bath, otherwise the image will tend to tone completely, especially if I keep it in a soak tray prior to washing.

[PViapiano]

The fix helps stop the bleaching action, although it seems to speed up the bleaching when immersing it in the fix. Just make sure you rinse the print before immersing in the fix. It needn't be in the post-bleach fix for very long...

[Erik Larsen]

Thanks for the advice folks! I guess there is no consensus on the issue. I was just hoping for the words-you're doing it just right and not worry about any stability issues. I have some prints that are at least a year old without using the refix method and there doesn't seem to be a problem, I don't know if I will have a problem further down the road or if a problem would show up by now. I don't want present prints that I may bleach and not refix end up useless in a couple years if you know what I mean.

thanks again
Erik

[Michael Rosenberg]

Erik,

I think you would be safe if you refixed after bleaching. Problems may show up years later - why take the chance? You can refix for as little as 1:30 min.

I would also suggest washing off the fix before bleaching, as it may cause too rapid changes, or bleed off into an area you do not want to lighten. I usually have a sponge soaked in fix that I lay on the bleached area to rapidly stop any additional bleaching. I can then go on an bleach the next area, and etc.

Mike

[RPNugent]

Having taken workshops with Bruce Barnbaum, Jay Dusard and Don Kirby all of whom use bleach extensively in their printing I would say fix after bleaching. It's what they do as standard procedure.