Projecting 4x5 slides

[lxdesign]

Hi all,

so I have just gotten into the business of shooting 4x5 with a view camera... and I love the results! I am looking for ways to possibly project my work in the future... and being that I come from a theatrical lighting background, I know of several scene FX projection systems including http://www.pani.com/ the Pani Projectors we used to have at a company I worked for called Christie Lites Ltd here in Toronto.

But I am wondering if there is slightly cheaper alternative for projecting my slides. Can anyone help me with what exists or where I could find it, or even if I could adapt some other type of equipment to project my 4x5's?

BTW: I did read some of the LF forum posts on this subject, and I am not really interested in turning an overhead into a LF projector... I am looking for something a little more serious! Thanks.

[Donald Miller]

I believe that you are moving into an area that will involve either an adaption of an existing mechanism or vastly increased expense.

Noblux (don't know if they are still in business) had a large format projector but it appears that B and H no longer has it listed.

If you were to use a graphic arts process camera as the basis for your projector, you might save yourself a lot of money.

Just curious why do you choose 4X5 as the projected format...since Hassleblad and Rollei already have medium format enlargers...

You might check with Lucas Films to see what they use.

[Jim Noel]

MOst good 4x5 enlargers can be turned to project horizontally. Although bulky on their bases, some type of conversion could probably be worked out.

[lxdesign]

A 4x5 enlarger.. interesting, but I think it lacks the cooling technology and punch required to project a bright enough image. This technology exists... as evidence.... I provided the link to Pani projectors which I have used first hand. The company I used to work for owned both Pani and Pigi projectors which we used on several projects to project large scale images on the side of buildings and at big events. Those projectors however are really expensive, and quite large to carry around (you need a truck to transport them). I was thinking that if there was something on a smaller scale readily available... it might be cool.

Donald, I already have a medium format projector... I am looking for something larger. The Pani BP-2 projector can project images up to 18cm x 18cm. Pretty cool eh?

[Nathan Potter]

You could get a used Omega D2 and rework it, with considerable effort, to project in a horizontal position. Remove the normal head and design and build a fan cooled metal housing with a (I'm guessing) 1000 W halogen bulb (could be a point source). If a point source design, don't use the variable condenser, only the two main 6 inch condensers. Distance from bulb to first condenser might be about 12 inches but mock it up first to make sure. Use a piece of heat absorbing glass between the bulb and first condenser. You'll need a projection lens preferably faster than f/5.6 - f/4 maybe OK. I did this some years ago in an industrial setup to examine microdevices for quality control instruction.

Oh, and a good room air conditioner is very handy.

Nate Potter

[Struan Gray]

Not much help I'm afraid, but here's a tidbit.

A local company was selling off a projector for 4x5 transparencies inteded for outdoor projection of adverts or backdrops. It looked like an overhead projector on steroids. Asking price was 1000 Euros or so, and when I looked up the company online that was about 1/3-1/4 of the new price.

I can't rememeber the name, or find the ad in the archives (mine, or googles). But they were definitely a Geman company.

What you want is out there.

[Donald Miller]

The problem with using a photo enlarger for this application is that enlargers are seriously lacking in the sort of light output needed for this application. As one increases light output the need for adequate cooling increases as well. As projected distance doubles the needed light output quadruples (I believe that my math is accurate on this).

I converted a 5X7 Durst enlarger to a much larger light output about two or three years ago. I went from a 200 watt lamp to a 1200 watt lamp and I needed a fan to cool this down...melting glass was a result of not having adequate cooling... so you can imagine what would happen to film...or to a lens for that matter. This conversion of mine would not be up to what you want...it would be inadequate.

For the application that you want, you will need at least 5-10 KW (maybe higher) of light...and that is not projecting great distances. I still think that a process camera would get you part of the way to what you want. Also please be aware that some of the high output lamps have high outputs of UV as well. Protect your eyes.

From my experience, I know that evenness of light becomes really problematic at points in this matter.

[lxdesign]

Hey Donald,

I know full well the danger of UV output, as I am a lighting technician, and work with HMI and Xenon lamp houses all the time. Actually, my theatre is equipped to project 35mm films, and we have 2 projectors with 1kw xenon lamps.

The projector which I was looking for is something such as the Pani BP-2 which is a 2000w Halogen bulb, and is designed to project 18cm x 18cm slides.... the slide holder could be adapted to project 4x5 no problem. I am looking into some local possibilities here.

The Pani projection system is designed for theatrical effects projection... the company I used to work for has a whole wack of this stuff. We also had Pigi projectors which use 7kw Xenon bulbs... I'll never forget the new years show we did with those projectors... it was awesome!

[lxdesign]

Hey folks, well I did get some info today on the Pani system... and some things that I had forgot about were brought up today when I talked to someone experienced in this field. The Pani projectors do not cool the slides properly... and thus there was concern that even slide film would melt. Apparently most of the prepared images used in this system are printed on some sort of heavy duty accetate which has a heat sheild coating. The print process is done via a lambda printer.

So back to the drawing boards... I would still love to figure it out, I may just end up using an overhead projector. I have a nice one here which has nicer light output. (I should mention that I manage an audio.visual department as part of a large organization).

[jb7]

Ok, so don't get me wrong,
I don't know what I'm talking about-
just thinking and typing-

But I've been buying projector lenses on that big site-
modern, coated, fast lenses, by Buhl-
7", 9" and 11"- f/2.5 for the shorter ones, f/3.1 for the 11".
they all cover 4x5, the longest one even covers more than 8x10-

I've mounted them, and have taken a few pictures,
but mostly tests, for the moment-

So I've got a metal camera- an Arca swiss-
and looking through that big shutterless lens from the front, the other night,
I was struck by the possibility of using the camera as a projector-
by removing the ground glass, and by a placing a transparency in a Newton's glass sandwich, and lighting it from the rear-

A large low energy light source might reduce the heat;
all it needs is an efficient reflector,
and perhaps a fresnel the right length, placed in a light tight box, and pointed at the film.

ok, so I shouldn't think and type at the same time-
but those lenses are good, and really inexpensive at the moment-

I don't need the project myself, so I'm not going to do it-

But where there's a will, there's a way-
or more likely, there's a wont-
as subsequent replies will probably prove-

ok, I'll stop thinking now...

joseph