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Thread: The upside down thing

  1. #1

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    The upside down thing

    Yesterday while bottling a very tasty Belgian dark ale with a friend we were discussing the images of Edward Weston and other famous large format photographers. We were looking at published works from various books.

    Our discussion centred around "what did they see" and "how did they react" to their GG images.

    To illustrate this point we looked at a large majority of EW's [and other's] work upside down [not reversed] instead of the normal manner of viewing and it highlighted some very interesting aspects of the way they approached their work.

    Questions??

    When you use your GG do you relate to it in any particular manner?

    What does the GG tell you?

    And is there anything in particular you gain from the inverted image that is not necassarily visual in the final print but is affected by things you saw?

    Steve

  2. #2

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    Re: The upside down thing

    First, looking at the image upside down helps you to abstract it and discern the different tonalities and shapes.
    Sometime we are attracted by one area of the image that "looks good" and build the image around it by maybe changing composition, or f stop...
    In my approach what is in front of the lens is not as important as what I see on the ground glass.

  3. #3

    Re: The upside down thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nicholls View Post
    Yesterday while bottling a very tasty Belgian dark ale with a friend we were discussing the images of Edward Weston and other famous large format photographers. We were looking at published works from various books.

    Our discussion centred around "what did they see" and "how did they react" to their GG images.

    To illustrate this point we looked at a large majority of EW's [and other's] work upside down [not reversed] instead of the normal manner of viewing and it highlighted some very interesting aspects of the way they approached their work.

    Questions??

    When you use your GG do you relate to it in any particular manner?

    What does the GG tell you?

    And is there anything in particular you gain from the inverted image that is not necassarily visual in the final print but is affected by things you saw?

    Steve
    I no longer see the image upside down, somehow my brain has learned to correct for this. Having said that, one of the few things that I agree with Michael A Smith is the fact that you need to see the ground glass, not what is on it. IOW, examine the GG as if it was a picture already. It takes a little bit of time but once you become practiced you start to see things and compose better.

  4. #4

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    Re: The upside down thing

    There comes a point for most of us when we stop being aware the the inversion. When I look at the gg image, I don't exactly see it as right side up, but I have to think about it to realize it isn't.. When I remember later what I saw on the ground glass, I always remember it as right side up. I guess I would say that I am essentially indifferent about it.

    The ground glass image is both upside down and reversed left to right. That is the same as being rotated 180 degrees. If you rotate it back, it will have the correct orientation for left and right. On the other hand, if, as the artist Vermeer is supposed to have done, you stand inside a darkened room (camera obscura) with a lens in one side, and trace the image you see on the opposite side, you will find that, when you turn it around, left and right are reversed.

    People get very confused about the meaning of orientation. This is typified by the puzzler: "When you look in a mirror, left and right are reversed, so why aren't up and down?" I'll leave that for you to ponder.

  5. #5
    Greg Lockrey's Avatar
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    Re: The upside down thing

    In art school we would routinely look at images upside down and in a mirror to better study the elements of composition as how it is affected by the constraints of the format and not be distracted by the subject. In drawing and painting it was easier to see if your perspective was correct.
    Greg Lockrey

    Wealth is a state of mind.
    Money is just a tool.
    Happiness is pedaling +25mph on a smooth road.



  6. #6

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    Re: The upside down thing

    I learned to draw by breaking things down into basic shapes. It has occurred to me that I still work the same way, in that the basic shapes of compositional elements are enhanced by the dim contrast of the ground glass, almost highlighted. So in spending time just studying the gg I become aware of compositional elements and geometric relationships that I might not have noticed at first. Of course the boundaries of the frame help immensely, but even more than that the inverted reverse of the image makes them almost jarringly apparent. It doesn't feel upside down or unnatural- even though in the weather here lately it is often raining or snowing in the wrong direction when I come out from under the dark cloth. :-D

  7. #7

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    Re: The upside down thing

    Whenever I invite an interested non photographer to look at the ground glass I always tell them "you would be surprised how quickly your brain stops telling you it's upside down." My dad was a news proof reader among other things. We kids thought it strange that he could read just as well and just as fast with the book upside down. When I was very new at LF I read everything upside down as an exercise to speed up the inevitable process of overcoming that akwardness. I haven't answered your question. I can get very excited or very bored while looking at the GG. I don't know that famous photographers saw any different upside down than we do. I rather doubt it.

  8. #8
    LF/ULF Carbon Printer Jim Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Re: The upside down thing

    It doesn't even register as being upside down and backwards anymore. I compose the elements on the GG and react to the shape ,line and forms. It all just falls into place.


    Jim

  9. #9
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: The upside down thing

    A friend served on a Navy ship -- writing backwards on the plexiglas (or whatever it is) where they keep track of the fleet and aircraft. After a shift he wrote a letter home to his mom -- all written backwards without any intention of doing so.

    The funny thing is, is that his mon wrote back to him the same way.

    The mirror thing is pretty straight forward -- harder to describe than to think about. A whole different principle than a projected image onto GG from a lens...especially when viewed from the backside like we do with view cameras.

    The projected image from a lens to a GG is upside down and backwards -- but since we view it from the backside of the GG, what we see is only upside down from that point of view. Interesting...never really thought about it before, and I have been looking at a GG for almost 30 years.

    To make things interesting, I make single transfer carbon prints -- the prints are reversed (backwards). If I turn my prints upside down, they are exactly what is projected onto the GG -- but backwards from what we see from the backside of the GG.

    At this point in time, I don't really think about the orientation of the image on the GG, but I do remember one time after a long period under the darkcloth, that I was momentarily confused as to the orientation of the world when I took my head out from under the cloth.

    vaughn

  10. #10

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    Re: The upside down thing

    Just as soon as I get my hands on a very tasty dark Belgian ale and imbibe while looking at my gg, I'll let you know what I see

    Really though, when I've been away from my camera for a long time it takes awhile to get used to the upside down cattywompus thing, but if I'm shooting on a regular basis I don't really notice it...but then I grew up attending California public schools in the
    60's and 70's
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

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