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Thread: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

  1. #1

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    12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    Hello friends,

    Looking for a new lens to replace my Industar-13 300/4.5 on my 8*10" (actually 18*24cm) Russian FKD camera I was proposed to buy the old brass lens on the lensboard with no shutter and with the following sign on the front rim:
    C P GOERZ BERLIN № 196615 DOPP-ANASTIGMAT Serie III DAGOR, F=300mm, 1:6,8 (see the attached picture).

    As I knew Dagors are good performers, but I didn't try one by myself yet. So, I'd like to ask someone who have (or did have) this lens or someone who knows a lot about Dagors to give their advices about the suitability of lens for my tasks. The nuance is that I'm going to use this lens on the wetplate camera and I intend to use it mostly for the portraits.

    Is this Dagor the right (or suitable) choice for this kind of photography or I should find other lenses? I know that there are much more suitable portrait lenses for wetplate (e.g. famous Dallmeyer 3D, or Rapid Rectilinears, special Portraits, etc.), but let's make the decision about this Dagor.
    And... is $180 a fair price for this lens?

    BTW, I know that the best way to decide whether to buy lens or not is to shoot with it, but the seller lives about 2500 miles away from me, so this way will be a bit difficult.

  2. #2
    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    That's an excellent price, and as long as it's optically sound it would be a great lens for a wet-plate camera.

    My 10"x8" camera came with a CP Goerz AM Opt 12" Dagor in a Compound shutter, (later factory coated after WWII), which the previous owner never used. I use it all the time and its very sharp, contrasty and an excellent performer.

    It should be ideal for portraits and will hold its value.

    Ian

  3. #3
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    It's a good proce for that lens, but I do not think it will make much difference to your 300mm Industar. The (tessar-type) Industar may possibly be a little bit sharper, and if it's coated it will give a little bit more contrast. It's also a stop faster, allowing shorter exposure times and less DoF...

    As to suitability for wet-plate, the tessar construction is a few years older than the Dagor. Neither was made in the wet-plate era.

  4. #4

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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Tjugen View Post
    ...but I do not think it will make much difference to your 300mm Industar. The (tessar-type) Industar may possibly be a little bit sharper, and if it's coated it will give a little bit more contrast. It's also a stop faster, allowing shorter exposure times and less DoF...
    Ole, so you can say that Industar and Dagor are comparable in their performance?

  5. #5

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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    I think 300mm is a bit wide for portraits on 8x10, unless you are doing full-length portraits. 300mm is roughly equivalent to a 50mm lens on 35mm, which is a "normal" focal length lens. If you try to do head and shoulders portraits, you will probably wind up with some facial distortion.

  6. #6
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    Quote Originally Posted by evgenys View Post
    Ole, so you can say that Industar and Dagor are comparable in their performance?
    Yes, with the Industar a stop faster and probably measureably sharper.

    The Industars made by LOMO are among the best of all fast Tessar lenses, worldwide!

  7. #7
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene McCluney View Post
    I think 300mm is a bit wide for portraits on 8x10, unless you are doing full-length portraits. 300mm is roughly equivalent to a 50mm lens on 35mm, which is a "normal" focal length lens. If you try to do head and shoulders portraits, you will probably wind up with some facial distortion.
    ... except for the fact that a 8x10" film is much larger than a 24x36mm 35mm frame. That means that the necessary extension is quite a bit more than 300mm, which changes the perspective quite a bit. A 300mm lens for tight portraits on 8x10" is closer to using a 60mm lens on 35mm (assuming 43mm as "normal" focal length), or a 180-200mm on 4x5".

    300mm works fine on 8x10". A 360mm or 420mm might be better, but not by much.

  8. #8

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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    I am currently using an uncoated 12" Dagor in a shutter on my 7x17. Great coverage below f 22.

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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    The Dagor will have a larger image circle than the Tessar, but for portrait work it doesn't matter.

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    Re: 12" Dagor for portraits on the 8*10" wetplate?

    Thank you all for your replies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Tjugen View Post
    Yes, with the Industar a stop faster and probably measureably sharper.
    The Industars made by LOMO are among the best of all fast Tessar lenses, worldwide!
    Ole, if the Industar has the comparable optical performance to the Dagor, plus it has two advantages of one stop more and the coating, so why LF photographers don't pay much attention to this lens? Industar-37 costs about $40-$50, but the same F=300 Dagor costs at least $150, and people hunt for it.
    I've searched this forum for the key words "Dagor" and "Industar". The results for "Dagor" gave 788 posts and for "Industar" - only 18 (in fact only one thread was completely devoted to the Industar with the only 5 posts there).
    Maybe there are some another characteristics of these lenses, besides the width of the aperture and the sharpness? Maybe they are different in such qualities, as the bokeh and the view of the picture, etc. which can be described as, e.g. - dull, harsh or soft and outstanding, flat or air-tight, etc. And Dagor in this "qualities comparing contest" completely beats the Industar?

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