New holders in 12 X 20 run close to $500 (AWB). I'm getting three from Wisner t ogether with a 12 X 20 camera, and am therefore getting a better price. One thr ead archived here suggested that the Wisner holders might not be the best choice . Leaving $ aside for the moment, anybody have personal experience with the dif ferent new wooden holders available for the larger film sizes(Great Basin, AWB, Wisner, etc.)? Anything to recommend or stay away from? Anybody used the vacuu m holders (Hoffman, I think)? Is film flatness really a practical issue, assumi ng you've got the film plane in the right place to begin with? It ought to be b y sheer gravity, but I understand film flatness tolerances become less critical as format size increases. How about in the real world of 12X20 and up? Thanks as always for your thoughts!