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Thread: Printer Quandary

  1. #1

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    Printer Quandary

    I've been using an Epson 1280 printer for several years, but I've never really found it satisfactory, particularly for black/white. I am a serious amateur, but my ambitions are limited by advancing age and capability I don't expect to make lots of large prints, but I do make them for family and friends as well as for myself. I know I can enhance the 1280 s use for b/w by using inks designed for that purpose, but I would really prefer a printer which can do a reasonable job with default inks.

    I've been contemplating getting a 3800, but I am put off by the expense of the ink sets. The alternative would be to get a better 13 x 19 inch capable printer, like the 1280. I've recently been trying to master color management, and it is possible that I could use that to have larger prints made commercially, and still control the results.

    I would appreciate any advice. For example, assuming I make at most two or three prints a month, how long would the 3800 inks last before they had to be discarded because of age? Also, I notice that there are third party inks advertised on the web for the printer which cost only a fraction of the cost of the Epson inks. Are such cartridges a serious alternative?

    If I understand color management, if I include a profile in an image, then a commercial lab can in principle produce a print which will be pretty close to what I could do myself. Is that a realistic expectation?

  2. #2

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    Re: Printer Quandary

    At 2-3 prints a month, you will burn up all your ink keeping the heads clean. The 3800 is very efficient with ink, at least for black and white, which is all I do, but it consumes ink in the cleaning cycles. It does a great job, but you would have to do a lot more prints than than to make it worthwhile.

    Commerical labs can do a good job if you calibrate your monitor and pay attention to using their profiles. At the low level you print, you would be hard pressed to make better prints yourself than you will get at a commerical lab. Here is some info from a photographer working on doing the same:

    http://beckermanphoto.com/2007/12/04/whcc-i/

  3. #3
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Printer Quandary

    But the unit ml. price of the inks is lower in the 3800 is it not because the carts are larger?
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  4. #4

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    Re: Printer Quandary

    > But the unit ml. price of the inks is lower in the 3800 is it not because the carts are larger?

    They are, but it would take him years to use up the ink at 2-3 prints a month. I think one estimate is that the printer will consume nearly a set of carts over a year just keeping the heads clean. You could turn it off, but the odds are you would clog by the time you turned it back on, using a lot of ink to clear the clogs.

  5. #5

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    Re: Printer Quandary

    I had already concluded that i didn't do enough printing to justify using the 3800, at least with ink costing $55 per cartridge.

    But what about alternate inks?

    Also, are there any other alternatives for printing 16 x 20 prints where the ink cost is not so high. I am willing to replace ink cartrdiges relatively frequently if they don't cost so much. I am also willing to spend more on the initial cost of the printer.

    I suppose that when all is said and done, I just can't justify doing my own 16 x 20s.

    I've looked at the WHCC site and I skimmed through what they want. Can anyone else offer any advice about what sorts of things other labs require/suggest?

  6. #6

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    Re: Printer Quandary

    If you would keep the 1280 if you could make good b&w prints using Epson color inks, go to www.harrington.com, see if QTR supports the 1280, which I think it does. If it does download QTR for a free trial, if you like it keep it and pay $50. I can't remember for sure whether I first used QTR with the 1280 or whether it was with the 2200 that replaced my 1280. But I've used it with at least two printers, the 2200 and now the 3800, maybe three if I first used it with the 1280. It's worked great for b&w and it will allow you to use Epson inks.

    But if you don't want to keep the 1280, then you might consider a 3800. My experience with the 3800 has been very different from what Ed suggests. I print sporadically - I'll go for maybe 2-3 weeks without making any prints, then I'll print maybe 6 or 8 6x9/8x10 prints in a batch (mostly color lately), then go another few weeks without printing anything. I also print a very occasional 12x17 (it's ironic that I bought the 3800 so that I could make prints wider than 13" and I have yet to actually do that) and an occasional short document. I've never run a cleaning cycle that I can remember and I've never had a clog. I've had a 3800 since March, the ink usage indicator shows that I've used maybe 15% of the available ink (things get a little confusing because I've actually owned 2 3800s but I think 15% is about right for the two combined). Based on usage so far I expect a set of inks to last 3+ years. While $500 is a lot for a set of inks, when you only have to buy them once every three years or so it isn't bad at all, much better than my 2200 which drank ink. Plus you wouldn't need to use a lab to make 16x20 prints since you can do that with the 3800.

    I've never used a lab so I can't help there. I did use MIS inks with Paul Roark's curves in my 1280 for b&w prints (back then I did b&w exclusively so I didn't mind dedicating the 1280 to b&w). That was a nice combination except for the fact that MIS has a lot of QC problems and I had to replace defective cartridges fairly often. Also of course you'd need another printer for color if you want to do color.
    Brian Ellis
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  7. #7
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Re: Printer Quandary

    I'd recommend taking a hard look at the HP B9180. Lower costs all around and no ink clogging problems.

  8. #8

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    Re: Printer Quandary

    3800 is amazing machine! I actually own it and do something like 2-3 prints a month too. I only had to clean up the head once, there was one nozzle clogged. I bought it 8 months ago and ink levels are at ~30%. I use 1440 dpi setting for most of my prints (in fact, I can't see any difference between 1440 and 2880 dpi on luster and matte papers so I use the setting that requires less ink

  9. #9
    Tech Support, Chromix, Inc.
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    Re: Printer Quandary

    I'll add a points that no one else has mentioned.

    The Epson 1280 is prone to metamerism, which especially with black and white, can make your prints look one color under one light, and another color in a different light. This is due to the inks used. This might be what you're seeing when you say the 1280 is unsatisfactory?

    Concerning alternate inks for the 3800: Pantone is a reputable company and also supplies their own branded inks for these Epson printers. They are also a lot less expensive.

    Concerning inkjet vs. prolab: If your images have a lot of saturation in them (and that's important to you), you might be better off with your own inkjet printer. Silver halide photographic prints have a better color gamut than an offset press, but not as big as these modern inkjets.

    -Pat Herold
    CHROMiX

  10. #10

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    Re: Printer Quandary

    Quote Originally Posted by pherold View Post
    I'll add a points that no one else has mentioned.
    Concerning alternate inks for the 3800: Pantone is a reputable company and also supplies their own branded inks for these Epson printers. They are also a lot less expensive.
    Hmm, I just checked the Pantone web site, seems like they don't make inks for 3800 yet. In fact, I haven't seen any 3rd party inks for 3800. Wondering if it's because original Epson inks are that good

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