Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta

[Ed Richards]

> Shadow detail (or lack of it) isn't so much a factor of the paper itself as it is of media settings, profile, rendering, working space gamma etc. You may though have to trade Dmax to achieve the separation you want.

Maybe, but I was pretty surprised comparing Innova and Harman printed several different ways, including custom profiles with a RIP and Epson AWB. I might have been able to inprove the shadow detail with the Innova by heroic measures, but I prefer to not to have to redo my prints for a specific paper.

[Stephen Best]

... but I prefer to not to have to redo my prints for a specific paper.

You shouldn't have to. Check out the linearity I managed to achieve with Harman Gloss (last post this page):

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...t=28663&page=9

By using the same procedure (see earlier the above thread) you should get similar linearity with any paper of this type. I haven't tried the Hahnemühle yet.

[paulr]

And we are very picky about our surfaces after decades of wonderous papers.

Personally, paper surface has long been an annoyance for me with silver papers. It's hard enough to find a paper with tonal (and toning) response that I like; after that I'm pretty much stuck with whatever surface they give me. I used Fortezo for over ten years ... beautiful image and toning qualities, blah surface. I miss the satiny sheen of the old (really old) portriga. And some of the kodak papers that were around long before my time. This is an area where inkjet might win me over, especially when they come up with some gloss surfaces that work with carbon pigments. It's more than a minor evolution to be able to chose the image medium and the substrate separately.

The silver papers we loved because they WORKED in some pleasing way, each a bit differently.

We also typically loved them because we got used to them, and over a period time learned to work with their strengths, weaknesses, quirks, etc.. It's a tall order for any newcomer to compete with an old favorite. Its character only becomes fully evident after we're forced to live with it a while.

[Tyler Boley]

I was also a Portriga enthusiast, for many years. So far the new Ilford surface is the most appealing to me. It also measures a very neutral paper base. Many of these new papers have OBAs to the point of looking and measuring blue.
Tyler

[Michael T. Murphy]

I can't remember that I ever really liked the finish and look of B&W silver papers all that much. I printed on them for 20 years, up until 1998 when I went to digital output. I don't really miss them.

Air drying was the only good option. Ferrotyping was a PITA and was too glossy, usually with some uneveness.

I just received the Hahnemule Photo Rag Pearl, Crane Museo Silver, and Harman FB AI last week.

I was printing on them today - color only, that is almost all I do anymore. No real conclusions so far.

In general, they are nice papers for portfolios or other hand-held uses. A review will be nice for tips and specs. But I don't see that it will get most folks very far.

I'd recommend buying a sampler pack from one of the online stores and running a quick set of prints for comparison. To me it is kind of like reading the names of trees (the review), vs. walking in the woods. You need to see and feel the papers. My response to art work is intuitive. The specs and others comments are almost irrelevent at that point.

Maybe the mag could offer to ship a set of prints for comparison for $10 to $15?

[Ed Richards]

Stephen,

I do not have any problems with Harman, it is Innova that I find very non-linear, at least as compared to the other papers I have used.

[Stephen Best]

Stephen,

I do not have any problems with Harman, it is Innova that I find very non-linear, at least as compared to the other papers I have used.

You may just be over-inking it. Find a combination of media type, ABW curve and Color Density that gives the best DMax with some separation all the way through 94%, 96%, 98% and 100% values, then do your final linearization with QTR-Create-ICC. You'll get some flattening with matte papers (by their nature) but there should be plenty of legroom with the Innova to get the shadow separation you're after. That said, I haven't tried the Innova in question.

Harman Gloss is great but I also want to try the new Epson because of its heavier weight. The lack of stiffness (and attendant head strikes at default platen gap settings) is the only real downside to Harman Gloss ... together with a bit of bronzing in the blues (which isn't a problem with B&W).

[Ed Richards]

I will buy a little of the Epson when it is available, but the descriptions of the surface as stippled put me off. Let me know what you think if you try the Innova - I have a pretty good rip and it does not help on the shadow detail either.

[Tyler Boley]

the Epson is Innova on a thicker base.

Even though I work with a lot of these papers out of general interest, and because I print for others, frankly I love monochromatic inks on the fine art surfaces the most appealing for my personal B&W work in ink.
But I recognize many do not respond to that look.
Tyler

[tim atherton]

the only downside I see with the Harman is the tendency towards micro-scratches. Be nice if they could toughen up the surface a touch (silver rag is almost indestructible by comparison)

And they are supposed to be making a warmer (non OBA??) version - which will be good if it comes about. I'm also glad Harman didn't go for too bright a white on the existing paper - that blue-white is a killer for b&w printing imo.

I really didn't like the Innova.

I only had a few sheets of the Baryta from Hahnemuhle to test and it wasn't enough to come to a serious conclusion. I'm in two minds about it (by comparison, the Harman was - wow - when the first couple of prints came through).

Also, I have found out over the years that the paper does matter as far as shadow/midtones etc go. I've been running and testing this stuff since uncoated Somerset Velvet was the best choice.

You can linearise and control your inks, produce profiles all you like, but some papers just give - for example - much much more shadow detail than others, while not sacrificing say midtones and highlights. Others you can do that with plenty of tweaking, but it often leaves other aspects of the print looking dead - you end up sacrificing something somewhere (I'm especially - but not only - talking b&w here)

One nice thing about the Harman is that gives you a full range almost out of the box. Any tweaking after that is just cream on the cake.