B/W Inkjet image quality?

[Ron Marshall]

I used several different types of MIS inks for about 5 years, tolerating the hassles resulting from their quality control problems because I didn't want to pay $500+ for a RIP that would have allowed me to use Epson color inks for b&w. Then QTR became available at a $50 cost so I started using it with Epson UC inks in my 2200 and now in my 3800 for b&w printing. That's an excellent combination IMHO and you might want to give it a try with your 2200. You can download QTR for free from www.harrington.com, if you don't like it pay nothing, if you do pay $50 on the honor system.

I don't know whether it and Epson UC inks are the equal of Cone septone inks because I've never used Cone inks. However, MIS inks have an excellent reputation (once you get past the QC issues) and the combination of QTR and Epson UC inks is IMHO at least as good as the MIS inks I used. I print b&w only on matte paper just because I prefer it to glossy so if there are problems with b&w on glossy paper with this combination I wouldn't know about them but there aren't with matte paper (Moab Entrada Natural and Moab Entrada Fine Art in my case).

Brian, I use the QTR for the Cone inks, and I agree that it does a wonderful job. I have never tried it with the ultrachromes though. But I also want to get a printer with larger carts.

[Kirk Gittings]

My understanding is that Canon ink has not passed fade tests, except on Canon media,

Wilhelm has never published any of the long term fade tests on those Canon inks, only the preliminary results even on Canon media. The final tests are like a year overdue, a delay that never happened with Epson or HP tests. It is suspicious enough that I couldn't invest in a Canon printer. The Wilhelm accelerated fade tests are the only cross industry standards that we have to go on. They have redesigned the grey and black inks and we will see.

[tim atherton]

Presumably much of the Cone and MIS ink setups will no longer be available?

[Ted Harris]

Ron, see Kirk's post. While I don't feel as strongly about the issue as he does his point has a lot of merit. I will ask the folks that know at Canon and see what they say. Regarding the Z3100, as I said in another thread, remember that the red issue was addressed almost immediately after it was discovered ... over a year ago. The pizza wheel issue is something that some folks have had issues with on the B9180 with heavier papers, NOT AFAIK on the Z3100. I did have some roller marks for example on the first sheet of Harman FB Gloss (a very heavy paper) I ran through the machine and I realized it was my fault. When I had calibrated the printer for that paper and profiled the paper I forgot to change the setting to heavyweight paper. I recalibrated to change the roller tension and no more roller marks My guess is that people that have seen roller marks on prints from the Z3100 haven't taken the time to properly calibrate the printer/profile the paper. BTW I've now printed a couple of black and white prints and one large color print on the Canon 6100 and the output is impressive. Need to print some more and then lay them out side-by-side with the same prints from the Z3100 and the 4800.


Tim and others, I will drive over to see Jon sometime next week and see what he has to say.

[Ron Marshall]

[QUOTE=Ted Harris;288575]Regarding the Z3100, as I said in another thread, remember that the red issue was addressed almost immediately after it was discovered ... over a year ago. The pizza wheel issue is something that some folks have had issues with on the B9180 with heavier papers, NOT AFAIK on the Z3100.

QUOTE]

I'm glad to hear that both of those issues have been resolved. There is so much hearsay on the forums that it is difficult to judge.

In the original post about the ink cartridge ruling Jon Cone was quoted as saying that the rulign would not effect "large format printers". So, if correct, then presumably Cone inks will still be available in carts for Epson 4800, 7800 and 9800.

[Bruce Watson]

I have been printing on an Epson 2200 for two years using Cone septone B/W inks and am very satisfied with the image quality.

I have not tried printing B/W images using Epson inks on either matte or glossy papers.

How good is the B/W output from Epson K3 printers, and is image quality better with matte or glossy papers?

It depends on what you want of course. The main advantages of the Cone inks is smoothness, tonal transitions, and excellent shadow and highlight detail. All limited to matte papers.

The main advantages of the K3 inks is performance on glossy papers, where you get considerably greater Dmax. This can translate into excellent shadow detail as well. With the black and two gray inks you get good smoothness, but not as good as with the Cone inks IMHO. Very close though. Highlight detail to my eye isn't as good with the K3 inks either, with a little more graininess and less smoothness. Again, very close though. And of course, using the K3 inks you can vary your color while the Cone inks are fixed color inks.

So it probably depends on what you value most. If you value smoothness over Dmax then you might not be satisfied with the K3s. OTOH if you value Dmax and a glossy surface of some kind, then the K3s may well win. Etc.

The answer of course is try them both and see. Sorry, but you know it's true.

[Ron Marshall]

It depends on what you want of course. The main advantages of the Cone inks is smoothness, tonal transitions, and excellent shadow and highlight detail. All limited to matte papers.

The main advantages of the K3 inks is performance on glossy papers, where you get considerably greater Dmax. This can translate into excellent shadow detail as well. With the black and two gray inks you get good smoothness, but not as good as with the Cone inks IMHO. Very close though. Highlight detail to my eye isn't as good with the K3 inks either, with a little more graininess and less smoothness. Again, very close though. And of course, using the K3 inks you can vary your color while the Cone inks are fixed color inks.

So it probably depends on what you value most. If you value smoothness over Dmax then you might not be satisfied with the K3s. OTOH if you value Dmax and a glossy surface of some kind, then the K3s may well win. Etc.

The answer of course is try them both and see. Sorry, but you know it's true.

Thanks Bruce, your second to last paragraph sums it up very nicely.

I'll ask Calumet to print one of the images I have already printed using Cone inks.

[Jack Flesher]

If you want to see smooth tonal gradation and awesome D-Max, you need to see a well printed B&W done with Epson K3 on the new Harman FB Gloss... If you read the last few pages of the "Digital Silver Gelatin Has Arrived" thread, you'll see where Don Hutton showed identical wet and K3/Harman prints to a group of traditional printers -- and a few of them replied here --- in my opinion, it is THEIR few words that sum it up

Cheers,

[Ron Marshall]

Thanks Jack, that is the paper I was planning to use when I ask Calumet to do my comparison prints.

I check out the thread.

[Kirk Gittings]

Tim and others, I will drive over to see Jon sometime next week and see what he has to say.

Ask him about the new glossy b&w inks too. When might they be available.