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Thread: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

  1. #1

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    Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    In a current For Sale thread, an interesting question was rasied about differences between Velvia 50 and Velvia 100. What peaked my curiosity was not the question itself, though, but the "how can you even ask" type of reply.

    Out of principle, I'd rather avoid hijacking someone's For Sale thread, so I'm starting a new one here.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew vincent View Post
    so let me get this straight - Velvia 50 is more expensive, slower, AND has higher granularity than Velvia 100? What's the point?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Parker View Post
    HUH?

    It is quite obvious, you have NEVER shot VELIVIA 50!!!

    Besides Kodachrome 25, Velvia has been one of the standards for almost 30 years now!

    Geeze

    Kids!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric James View Post
    Don't forget the reciprocity benefit of the 100
    [QUOTE=Dave Parker;287826]You have got to be kidding???????????????????????????????????

    I can say, if I didn't have 10 boxes in the freezer, they would definitely have a new home!/QUOTE]

    So, Dave, would you care to indulge someone who's closer to being a grandfather than a kid but who never shot either flavour of Velvia himself with a reasoned explanation?



    P.S.

    I have omitted all the smiles from the quotes because of the forum limitation to four only.


  2. #2

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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    To summarize, the comparison points raised so far are:

    - Saturation
    - Color pallete
    - Speed
    - Reciprocity
    - Grain
    - Stash in the freezer

    Did I forget anything?

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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post

    So, Dave, would you care to indulge someone who's closer to being a grandfather than a kid but who never shot either flavour of Velvia himself with a reasoned explanation?



    P.S.

    I have omitted all the smiles from the quotes because of the forum limitation to four only.

    Well I am a grandfather twice over now..and I don't think I could explain either Kodachrome 25 or Velvia 50, those of use that learned photography learned working in the limitations of the medium and made it sing....

    I do have a problem with someone who has never shot a particular type of film saying whats the point!!!

    Photography is not about speed, it is about understanding, learning and knowing how to make the best image within the limitations of the medium available to you...

    New is not always better..

    And since when is photography suppose to be easy? Fast film, newer computers, bigger sensors, anyone that really wants to be a good photographer, should really take a look at the roots and progression of photography, before that condemn any part of it!

    Dave

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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Parker View Post
    I do have a problem with someone who has never shot a particular type of film saying whats the point!!!
    But why???

    There's always a first time for anything, isn't there? It looks like a perfectly reasonable question for someone who hasn't done it yet.

    I'm not a color film shooter myself and I never quite understood the religious fervor with which some folks who are approach the subject.

    But I would really like to, if for no other reason then to make sure that I am not missing something important.

    So, there, having just freely admitted my ignorance of the topic, I'd really appreciate being educated a bit.

    Any takers?


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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    Marko,

    Why is it reasonable to say "Whats the point" if you have NO experience in the subject matter your talking about? You picked my post to start a new one, saying it was being derailed, but I did not post the first off topic post in that for sale thread.

    I am not a B&W shooter and would never suppose to think I could question any B&W shooter on their choice of film.

    But I do know a whole bunch about color, it has been my medium of choice for over 20 years now, and understand the subtle nuances of the various films and how to expose them for a particular look.

    There is a warm almost animate look to the original Velvia when you hit the sweet spot in an exposure, it lends a air of hyper sensitivity, almost dreamy...but you have to learn how to use it, play with the exposure and not worry about the grain or the speed but understand what your trying to achieve and give to others, it, as was Kodachorme 25 was special, it allow us to see things beyond our normal vision when they were the mainstay..

    I guess, it is like those who shoot only digital now, looking at the fantastic world they can create with the computer, but we did it on film with no manipulation...other than exposure and f/stops!

    My best images have been exposed on film and I didn't have to "fix" it in the computer, actually, since I have been shooting digital, I find myself being lazy, knowing unless, I am soft, I can fix most anything even if I missed!

    Dave

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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Parker View Post
    You picked my post to start a new one, saying it was being derailed, but I did not post the first off topic post in that for sale thread.
    Dave,

    I did not pick your post because it was off topic - I picked it because it made me curious. It was indeed someone else who started it, but it does not matter much.

    It was a For Sale thread and I started a new thread rather than continue going off topic there. That decision had nothing to do with your post and everything to do with my very opinionated view that off topic posts in FS threads are extremely rude and inconsiderate toward the OP.

    Part of it selfish, I admit - some day I will have something to sell and I'd hate to see my thread being hijacked by flamers. But a good part of it is still the good, old sense of decency and respect toward the fellow poster who is trying to sell something..

    Now, that being said, back to this topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Parker View Post
    Marko,

    Why is it reasonable to say "Whats the point" if you have NO experience in the subject matter your talking about?
    Well, if I did have experience in the subject matter I wouldn't need to ask, now, would I?

    I find it at least as reasonable to ask such a question as it is to call digital processing "manipulation" and traditional one "craftsmanship" or "artistry".

    It is basically ignorance that stands behind both the question and the statement, but I find the question more reasonable because it implies a desire to hear an answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Parker View Post
    I guess, it is like those who shoot only digital now, looking at the fantastic world they can create with the computer, but we did it on film with no manipulation...other than exposure and f/stops!
    Right... You carefully choose the film, filtering and the process in order to achieve a certain "look".

    But isn't selecting emulsion based on its characteristics already a manipulation? You said it yourself - the difference between the two Velvias, not to mention other films, is so pronounced and obvious that even asking a question about it is utterly unreasonable.

    Try as I may, I really can't see what's the principal difference between that and post processing raw images.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Parker View Post
    My best images have been exposed on film and I didn't have to "fix" it in the computer, actually, since I have been shooting digital, I find myself being lazy, knowing unless, I am soft, I can fix most anything even if I missed!
    This is not necessarily the advantage of one medium and the shortcoming of the other, it sounds more like the user limitation. And besides, this is not entirely accurate either. You can adjust certain parameters post exposure, akin to push and pull development but you can fix it no more than you can fix errors on film. Those are two different toolsets, but their capabilities are rather comparable in the hands of similarly skilled practitioners.
    Last edited by Marko; 31-Oct-2007 at 19:21.

  7. #7
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    Marko,

    Seeing tells the tale. Get a copy of the July issue of View Camera and read my article comparing the original Velvia 50, the new Velvia 50 and Velvia 100. The images in the article very clearly show the differences. The 100 is less vibrant, not quite as sharp and seems to have a slightly more compressed color palette. But, words without the pictures don't work well in this case so go look at the article.

  8. #8
    Large format foamer! SamReeves's Avatar
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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    Whether it's Velvia 50 or 100F, it can all be enhanced in Photoshop. Therefore no need to debate what is slowly becoming all oranges.

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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    Well Marko,

    For the life of you, you may not see any difference, but for the life of me, I do.

    Dave

  10. #10
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    Re: Velvia 50 vs. Velvia 100

    Dave,

    My original post was a bit flippant, but it was actually an honest question. As for this "I do have a problem with someone who has never shot a particular type of film saying whats the point!!!" I'm not a grandfather, nor even a father yet. I am a professor of modern and contemporary art, and I've dabbled in photography since about 1990 (when I was 16). I shot black and white then, quit, then moved on to color when I got back into it around 1998. Velvia was the reason I got back into photography, and yes, I loved it. With moving to a new job and buying a house and a million other things, I actually haven't bought any new film for over a year, and didn't realize that velvia 50 had come back. But honestly, I didn't see the point, since the 100 (NOT the 100F, which sucked) but the 100 seemed to be like the original, only better.

    Now I see that I was wrong. Still haven't compared the two side by side, but looking at the tests posted by Ken Rockwell (http://www.kenrockwell.com/fuji/velvia-50.htm) I realize that the film I've been shooting WAS noticably cooler in tone, and has exhibited some problems with magenta casting. If the new 50 gets rid of those color problems, it would be worth it to be to switch, even though I often make multiple minute exposures and could really use the extra stop of latitude.

    So this has been a very educational experience - thank you.

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