Professional flatbed scanners?

[Doug Dolde]

All I can say is my next camera will be a Nikon D3 and not a Canon.

[Kirk Gittings]

Harley, I am interested in, but have not tested the 14mm. Most people think arch photo is about extreme wide angles, but that is simply not true. I very very rarely use anything wider than 24mm and when I want something wider I prefer to stitch with shift lenses, because there is less distortion by stitching. My needs are different than many DSLR users as I am always on a tripod and have no interest in wide open lens performance. Many of the complaints about this lens is the corners wide open. I am much more interested in like f11. But since I would rarely use it, the purchase of the 14mm is not a priority.

Doug, I understand, the Nikon FF products look very very good, but you know there would not be a FF Nikon without the phenomenal success of Canon with FF. The competition will drive Canon. It is all good. I love it. Unfortunately when I got into it 1.5 years ago there was only one FF game in town. But it was still a great investment. I had the most productive and profitable commercial year of my career with the 5D and my back and knees applaud.

[audioexcels]

Here are his exact words and he has more glass to list including Zeiss/Leica/Pentax/and of course Canon.

"Ease of use doesn't really figure into this, this is pure obsession, medium format delivers a portrait quality orders or magnitude beyond 35mm DSLR, the DoF is amazing, and the extra work is worth it imho. Shooting the Rollei is also a joy, the viewfinder is simply stunning. With forethought you can capture shots that people would not expect on medium format."

"Medium format just has a wonderful quality to it in combination with good film (Portra or NPH/NPS). I can't afford a digital back, and to be
honest I'm not sure I'd want one. For anything else where convenience is required, the 5D comes out every time. If there's action or the weather turns, then I almost always have my 1dmkii with me. Unfortunately it's away for canon having a broken meter fixed!."

So in a way, he agrees and disagrees with you guys.

[D. Bryant]

"Unless you are using really crappy lenses on a 5D?" Does that mean shooting non Canon brand lenses then? It's a real crap shoot if you hope to get a good Canon branded lens.

Try the EF 100 f/2.8 or the EF 50 f/1.4. Neither are L branded but the IQ is excellent for me.

Don Bryant

[audioexcels]

Try the EF 100 f/2.8 or the EF 50 f/1.4. Neither are L branded but the IQ is excellent for me.

Don Bryant

The 50 is one that the person I mentioned above uses. I think he has the 85/1.2 as well.

[Gordon Moat]

> . . . . . . . It's hard to believe that a 150 year industry, will experience a 95% evolution, literally turned upside-down, in a period of ~10 years.

The history of photography contains many similar changes. I am amazed any of this surprises anyone. Also, there is more to photography than convenience . . . shit, if painters only considered convenience, we might never see oil on canvas in the future.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[bglick]

> The history of photography contains many similar changes. I am amazed any of this surprises anyone.

Huh? Lets see, 150 years of chemical processing of film and/or prints, completely trumped (95%+) in 10 years, to full electronic capture, electronic manipulation and electronic printing? What 10 year period in the past 150 years has seen this kind of evolution?



> Also, there is more to photography than convenience

You are right....there is also, the cost effectiveness of not buying, processing and scanning film. :-)

[Asher Kelman]

> Also one can use the 5D on the back of a 4x5 camera.

Unfortunately, the canon bodies have their sensors very recessed, which greatly limits how many captures can be made using rear rise/shift, due to the rays being vignetted by the lens bayonet. I have this set up, very disappointing...

But once 25MP sensors are the norm, its possible with the proper fl lens, you can net a 100MP image, which is quite amazing....

bgick,

(I hate calling people names crunched down like a closed perfectly good camera, just my little tiny peeve! I wish people would use real names but that's O.T.)

I am reporting shortly experience with taking pictures with the 5D on the back of LF cameras. I have found the camera functions pretty well. I need to test more extreme movement but so far, there's no big issue as long as one crops the penumbra slivers that occur at the extremes. Send me a PM and I'll let you know when my article is up. A better camera to use would be the inexpensive Canon Rebel which has a smaller sensor and therefore the throat of the Eos has less effect. However, cropping 1 in 5 pics is the same.

I don't want to continue this here but I will when the article is online.

Asher

[Gordon Moat]

> The history of photography contains many similar changes. I am amazed any of this surprises anyone.

Huh? Lets see, 150 years of chemical processing of film and/or prints, completely trumped (95%+) in 10 years, to full electronic capture, electronic manipulation and electronic printing? What 10 year period in the past 150 years has seen this kind of evolution?

. . . . . .

All those chemical processes were not the same. George Eastman turned the entire industry on it's ear with the "You Take The Picture, We Do The Rest". Take a look at all the various processes that were replaced by other processes. Since the beginning with dagguerreotypes, there have been many revolutions. Polaroid was another one, though the SX70 in the 1970s seemed to have been their greatest impact.

So daguerreotypes replaced by better wet processes, often faster or simpler. Then negative to positive processes. The glass plates replaced by paper, or later on different negative materials. There were industries and factories devoted to making albumen paper, followed by Printing-Out Paper (POP). Even platinum paper was available in boxes for a while, then largely replaced by silver papers.

Evolution or revolution, the photographic industry has not been static for 150 years. The changes are numerous and often.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[sanking]

S

Not to start a debate, but a person that has worked with the 5D and 1DSMKII for a couple of years now says a 6X6 shot with a Rollei camera and 80mm Planar lens outresolves any file he has ever seen with his 5D/1DSMKII setups...and he has the very best glass you can use on a Canon. BUT, here's the catch...he is viewing his 6X6files obviously on a high end calibrated monitor and with scans done with an Epson 750!

This thread sure has a long life.

In terms of your friend's finding, I suspect that he is right. Ted Harris has stated that the Epson V750 is capable of effective resolution of 2400 ppi. If you convert that to lp/mm it will be about 47 lppm. The Canon DSLR is capable of about 60 lp/mm, but the much larger film area of a 6X6 negative should give your friend's negatives scanned on an Epson V750 an advantage in resolution. The advantage would be even greater withe 6X7 or 6X9 format.

Of course, resolution is not the whole story. Film grain, how the files are processed, and work flow all have an important role to play in determining individual preference.

My experience with digital to this point, except some testing with a Canon 5d, has been limited to work with a 12.2 Canon G9 point and shoot. However, even working with this camera has shown me that there are some situations where working with a digital camera offers significant advantages. For example, if you are working in conditions of very subdued light it is much easier to see and adjust the image on the digital screen than in a film camera viewfinder. Also, for color work the ability to take several different exposures and merge with HDR is very exciting. In working with the G9 in conditions of very high brightness range I found it possible to obtain results that would simply not have been possible with a film camera and one exposure.

On the other hand, the quality possible from a good scan of a 6X7 or 6X9 Tmax-100 or Acros B&W negative can not be touched by any DSLR. It is true that when working with a very high quality MF camera, Mamiya 7 for example, a drum scan is really necessary to get all of the detail from the MF negative. However, even a scan with the Nikon LS-9000 at 4000 spi, or an EverSmart Pro at 3175 spi gives a superb file from a 6X7 or 6X9 Tmax-100 or Acros negative, one that can easily be enlarged to 18X22, and even larger with good interpolation procedures.

Sandy King