Are you in the Homeland Security database?

[tim atherton]

Until the list makers come knocking on my door with a search warrant for my arrest lets see how many more lists I can get on before I die.

what makes you think they need any kind of warrant? (or that such a warrant is meaninglessly easy to obtain)?

[cyrus]

We need not be reminded of the rights we have and the adjusments we all have to make in order to maintain those rights, good, bad, or indifferent.

We're all on lists, have been since birth, what's the big deal? Having a SS card put's you on a list, having a credit card puts you on a list, being a taxpayer puts you on a list, having a mailing address puts you on a list, having email puts you on a list, and on and on and on.

Being on a list for social security cards isn't exactly the same thing, is it?
The "adjustments" are the taking away of rights and instilling of fear in people who are engaging in perfectly legal activities. Its funny how there's always some big "crisis" that supposedly requires the people to accept "adjustments" to their rights.

To quote Benjamin Franklin: Those who sacrifice liberty for security will have neither.

Or to quote Plato: Tyrants first appear as protectors.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Hi all,

Please remember that the "Articles of Confederation" are still in full force and effect today also.

"The consitution is not an exclusive list of your rights - it is a list of what the gov't is or isn;t allowed to do. You won't read anything in the constitution that says you have a right to privacy either. Nor does it say anything about a right to marry or raise a child or choose a career. "

"Hmm - I don't remember anywhere in the constitution where it says I can't be put on a list or that I have a right to know what lists my name happens to be on. Putting you on a list doesn't violate your rights - it's what is done with that list that may or may not violate your rights."

That one is called the ninth ammendment.


I - Freedom of Speech, Press, Religion and Petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

IV - Right of search and seizure regulated
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

IX - Rule of construction of Constitution
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

X - Rights of the States under Constitution
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Happy Labor Day.

[jetcode]

what makes you think they need any kind of warrant? (or that such a warrant is meaninglessly easy to obtain)?

What country are you writing from? Here the authorities are busy keeping cities safe. I should knw I grew up with one, my dad. I've never had a problem with the authorities ever and I led a toxic childhood. If they want to come beat my door down for some form of infraction I will invite them in for tea and find out why they are here. I have nothing to hide and I don't know every rule and regulation like they do.

There is a purpose for everything. Nothing is perfect. What's the big deal?

[tim atherton]

What country are you writing from? Here the authorities are busy keeping cities safe. I should knw I grew up with one, my dad. I've never had a problem with the authorities ever and I led a toxic childhood. If they want to come beat my door down for some form of infraction I will invite them in for tea and find out why they are here. I have nothing to hide and I don't know every rule and regulation like they do.

There is a purpose for everything. Nothing is perfect. What's the big deal?

oh, I don't know. Things like hey, we have a Canadian Citizen transiting through the airport (traveling legitimately form a to b but having to stop over in the US. We think he might be a bad guy, so lets detain him illegally then send him against his will to a country where the security forces aren't encumbered by any kind of constitution so they can imprison and torture him for us for a couple of years and pass on any information they get.

Ignoring both US law and International Treaties to which the US is a signatory

Ooops - our bad, we got the wrong guy, he was entirely innocent - our information was bad. But hey - don't expect us to apologise.

Just one of many many examples

[jetcode]

Being on a list for social security cards isn't exactly the same thing, is it?
The "adjustments" are the taking away of rights and instilling of fear in people who are engaging in perfectly legal activities. Its funny how there's always some big "crisis" that supposedly requires the people to accept "adjustments" to their rights.

To quote Benjamin Franklin: Those who sacrifice liberty for security will have neither.

Or to quote Plato: Tyrants first appear as protectors.

I grew up in the 60's/70's when things were really intense. nothing appears to be all that intense nor challenging my way of life in this moment. Yes, there are threats to my liberties but it has yet to affect my lifestyle in any manner that I can detect.

People get stopped for photographing oil refineries and I'm not surprised. Say you produced a product that a society relied on and there were people photographing (in whatever manner) the operation you are responsible for worth trillions. You have no way of knowing how that information will be used. It could be analyzed for political purposes like destruction, it could be a nice print of some pretty lights. The actual property belongs to the oil company. Go to a Ultrasound trade show and try getting into one of your competitors booths, yeah good luck. But why? we are in a public building in a public trade show forum, and we are all Americans with civil liberties.

The struggle to define liberty is as old as mankind and the living creatures who inhabit earth. When it all gets sorted out it will be a wonder if any civilization is left to experience it.

[jetcode]

oh, I don't know. Things like hey, we have a Canadian Citizen transiting through the airport (traveling legitimately form a to b but having to stop over in the US. We think he might be a bad guy, so lets detain him illegally then send him against his will to a country where the security forces aren't encumbered by any kind of constitution so they can imprison and torture him for us for a couple of years and pass on any information they get.

Ignoring both US law and International Treaties to which the US is a signatory

Ooops - our bad, we got the wrong guy, he was entirely innocent - our information was bad. But hey - don't expect us to apologise.

Just one of many many examples

no one said living in this world was perfect - you could be wondering if you will be eating a nail infested suicide bomb for lunch with your falafal - I haven't traveled since 2004 or so. The only problem I had was in Nashville. At the airport I was given the third degree because I had a guitar and no short hair. What do you expect from the south? 40 years ago they were lynching black people for being alive.

If you feel betrayed spend some time talking to someone who has experienced Baghdad, Vietnam, or Cambodia, or any of the great wars, famines, massacres, typhoons, earthquakes, etc, etc, etc. Talk to the Katrina survivors.

no one said living in this world was perfect

[tim atherton]

no one said living in this world was perfect - you could be wondering if you will be eating a nail infested suicide bomb for lunch with your falafal - I haven't traveled since 2004 or so.

no one said living in this world was perfect

nice response: isolationism + "I'm not worried about any kind of unwarranted erosion of rights and freedoms, illegal and questionable actions by agents of the state or such - as long as it doesn't happen to me or my friends it's just fine."

good strategy

[jetcode]

nice response: isolationism + "I'm not worried about any kind of unwarranted erosion of rights and freedoms, illegal and questionable actions by agents of the state or such - as long as it doesn't happen to me or my friends it's just fine."

good strategy

ok - straight up - what are you going to do about it?

[cyrus]

ok - straight up - what are you going to do about it?

Start by complainiing about it on this board. Perfectly good reaction. Talking about things helps more than remaining silent.