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Thread: Helson-Judd effect

  1. #1

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    Helson-Judd effect

    All greetings!
    On the exhibitions and on the Internet I have reconsidered set of remarkable formatted photos and the most beautiful landscapes. Has paid attention to that at digital processing images almost nobody reduces chroma of blue shadows (Helson-Judd effect). But when we viewing a scene there are mechanisms of adaptation (cognitive component of adaptation) and shadows are not perceived intensive blue but dim blue. Whether it is not necessary to reflect?
    Thanks.

  2. #2

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    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    I ask myself the same question not only for shadows but also for white and near-white surfaces that are coloured by the surfaces around them, though we perceive them to be clean white; and in mixed lighting conditions. I decide on where I place the balance between perception and physical reality by considering the aesthetics of the image, and which technical approach fits with the intent of the image.

    The reverse of this is the deliberate use of very subtly coloured fill light when one is creating the lighting conditions.

    Best,
    Helen

  3. #3
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
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    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexey Shadrin View Post
    All greetings!
    On the exhibitions and on the Internet I have reconsidered set of remarkable formatted photos and the most beautiful landscapes. Has paid attention to that at digital processing images almost nobody reduces chroma of blue shadows (Helson-Judd effect). But when we viewing a scene there are mechanisms of adaptation (cognitive component of adaptation) and shadows are not perceived intensive blue but dim blue. Whether it is not necessary to reflect?
    Thanks.
    An interesting question: Do we show the shadows as the film sees them, or as our human visual system sees them? I think one can make a decent argument for both. I don't think one is more correct than the other. It probably comes down to which best serves the artist's vision for the specific image in question, and may chance from image to image for a given artist.

    I'll be interested to see what others think. I suspect this is one reason so many photographers like to do color work in full overcast conditions.

    Bruce Watson

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    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    Roses are red, shadows are blue. So, alas, are alligators in deep shade. I have a shot of one in the Clearwater Slough that's true to nature, entirely false to perception.

    For me, full overcast gives muted colors. Since I don't shoot velveeta or like what it does, this is a plus.

  5. #5

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    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Helen Bach View Post
    The reverse of this is the deliberate use of very subtly coloured fill light when one is creating the lighting conditions.
    Thank you. But this is not always possible particularly on landscape work.

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    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
    I suspect this is one reason so many photographers like to do color work in full overcast conditions.
    Yes. But the slightly H-J effect take place also in full overcast conditions. The film ordinary can`t compensate it, and i think that the colorcorrector must always do it. Or not always?
    Sorry my horrible English.

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    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    This is a constant problem (or benefit, depending on your point of view). Some people like the artificial look of blue elements (shadows, rocks, snow, etc.) in a landscape. I rarely do so I usually use Photoshop to correct the color balance. Sometimes I'll leave a very slight bluish tint in something like a large rock that dominates the scene and that otherwise would look plain jane gray but mostly I aim to represent the scene as I saw it or as I wish to have seen it, not as the camera saw it.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  8. #8

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    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ellis View Post
    but mostly I aim to represent the scene as I saw it or as I wish to have seen it, not as the camera saw it.
    I think that this is a most competent approach.

  9. #9

    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    Sure, sometimes a light warming filter, or just using a slightly warmer film. Coolness (bluer tones) can also seem to recede more; warmer tones seem to advance. There is a push and pull of colour tones, sometimes that can be used to good effect. I think there is some consideration of what someone wants a viewer to think about their images, beyond whether or not it is technically correct. An extreme example might be urban night scenes with flourescant lights causing green tones; sometimes that looks interesting.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    A G Studio

  10. #10

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    Re: Helson-Judd effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexey Shadrin View Post
    Thank you. But this is not always possible particularly on landscape work.
    Alexey,

    What I meant was that when we create lighting schemes we can deliberately introduce very subtle colouring into the shadows to mimic what happens in nature - to make a suggestion, possibly subconscious, of the environment. We may not notice the shadow colouration on a conscious level, but we may be aware of it at the sense level. So what I'm referring to is the creation of very subtly coloured shadows to evoke a subconscious sense memory.

    Best,
    Helen

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