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Thread: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

  1. #1

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    Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    Hope the title summed it up? Is this what yaw is? Or is that something that you get with all field cameras? Are there any field cameras ( or view cameras ) where you can just focus, do a movement and then thats it? Without the movement putting your original spot out of focus? That fine tuning between focus and a front swing drives me crazy ( and also makes me look slightly mad with the amount of time I spend under a dark cloth ). Any suggestions would be fantastic? Thanks again

  2. #2

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    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    You mean front tilt, right? Either way...

    Try this for axial tilt/swing...focus on the spot in the exact center of the ground glass. Many ground glass screens will have a center spot delineated. Once that's in focus, then apply your tilt. You should see near and far fall into focus and the center should stay where you originally put it. Sometimes a little touch up is all that's needed, but in general, this should work great for you.

  3. #3

    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Day View Post
    Hope the title summed it up? Is this what yaw is? Or is that something that you get with all field cameras? Are there any field cameras ( or view cameras ) where you can just focus, do a movement and then thats it? Without the movement putting your original spot out of focus? That fine tuning between focus and a front swing drives me crazy ( and also makes me look slightly mad with the amount of time I spend under a dark cloth ). Any suggestions would be fantastic? Thanks again
    Yaw occurs when you use tilt and swing simultaneously and the camera you are using has the tilt above the swing. The only field camera that I know that is jaw free is the Gandolfi Variant, the two view cameras I know that are yaw free are the Sinar P models and the Arca Swiss. All of these cameras have the tilt below the swing to prevent Yaw.

    Cameras that have base tilts require a bit more iterations to focus than those which have axis tilts, I have never used the asymetrical tilts like those on the Ebony cameras so I am unable to tell you if they work, but the people who have them seem to like it a lot and it seems to make it easier to focus with tilts.

    The metod I use to focus is simple and most of the time it does not require any refocusing. I focus on the near subject and mark the position on the bed (or rail), I then focus on the far subject and mark the position on the bed. After these two I place the standard in between these two points and then I tilt until I see at least 1/3 (or more, depending on the distance between the two points) of the foreground come into focus, I then close the diaphragm and check with a loupe to see if all I want in focus is in fact in focus. If it is not I then might close the aperture more or refocus.

    Now, to be honest, 99% of the time I just focus, close to f/45 and take the shot..... seems to work for me..

  4. #4
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    What you're describing is just the iterative tilt and focus method, not yaw.

    On a camera that is not "yaw-free," yaw occurs mainly when the camera base or rail is tilted and you apply swing, and this changes the composition of the image, resulting in a need to rotate the camera, and then this rotation requires that you correct the swing and tilt, which may require further rotation of the camera, etc.

    On a camera with asymmetric rear tilts and swings, the axis of rotation goes through the groundglass, so you can focus on the area that intersects the axis of rotation, tilt or swing, and that axis stays in focus. On a Sinar P, this makes tilts and swings easy. Then if you want the tilt to be on the front standard, rather than the rear, you can read the angle off a scale, tilt the front standard and relevel the rear standard, adjust focus once, and you're ready to shoot or make further adjustments.

    Another approach involves measuring the swing or tilt and using a calculator. The Sinar F/F1/F2 have a calculator built in, or you could use the Rodenstock calculator with any camera. There's a demo on the Sinar website explaining how it works.

    Asymmetric tilts and calculators are handy things, but once you use them for a while, you'll be able to estimate tilt and swing angles well enough to use the old tilt and focus method pretty intuitively.

  5. #5

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    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Gasteazoro View Post
    Yaw occurs when you use tilt and swing simultaneously and the camera you are using has the tilt above the swing. The only field camera that I know that is jaw free is the Gandolfi Variant, the two view cameras I know that are yaw free are the Sinar P models and the Arca Swiss. All of these cameras have the tilt below the swing to prevent Yaw.

    Cameras that have base tilts require a bit more iterations to focus than those which have axis tilts, I have never used the asymetrical tilts like those on the Ebony cameras so I am unable to tell you if they work, but the people who have them seem to like it a lot and it seems to make it easier to focus with tilts.

    The metod I use to focus is simple and most of the time it does not require any refocusing. I focus on the near subject and mark the position on the bed (or rail), I then focus on the far subject and mark the position on the bed. After these two I place the standard in between these two points and then I tilt until I see at least 1/3 (or more, depending on the distance between the two points) of the foreground come into focus, I then close the diaphragm and check with a loupe to see if all I want in focus is in fact in focus. If it is not I then might close the aperture more or refocus.

    Now, to be honest, 99% of the time I just focus, close to f/45 and take the shot..... seems to work for me..

    Linhof GT and Linhof Master GTL AMS are yaw free as is te TK when used on its side.

  6. #6

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    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    I don't mean to be a smart-ass, and you may have lots of experience with lens and back movements, but I'd like to point out that for virtually all subjects, (tabletop views of complex objects excepted), the amount of actual movement for correction is very, very small -- only a few degrees AT MOST!
    You are probably making much larger movements than necessary, and refocusing can become a real problem. Just make the teeny-tiniest corrections and you will probably have no problems.
    Some people also find that it helps to only do one movement (usually tilt) with the lens, and the other (swing) with the back.
    Wilhelm (Sarasota)

  7. #7

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    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    Yaw is one of the dimension names in flight dynamics: 3-D = 3-dimensional = X, Y, and Z = pitch, roll, and yaw. Here are a couple of sources to define what YAW is:

    http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy...itude/pyr.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_dynamics

    Now imagine your camera is a satellite, space shuttle, or any other favorite airplane...

    Same terms work for boats too!

  8. #8

    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon - HP Marketing View Post
    Linhof GT and Linhof Master GTL AMS are yaw free as is te TK when used on its side.
    The GT and GTL, SHOULD be yaw free, heck they should be autofocus for the kind of money they want for them...

    C'mon Bob, the TK does not count. That "turn it on it's side to make it yaw free" is bs. I had one, I tried it and having the camera on the side was a greater problem than having it with yaw...

  9. #9

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    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Gasteazoro View Post
    The GT and GTL, SHOULD be yaw free, heck they should be autofocus for the kind of money they want for them...

    C'mon Bob, the TK does not count. That "turn it on it's side to make it yaw free" is bs. I had one, I tried it and having the camera on the side was a greater problem than having it with yaw...
    Depends on the head you use it on. But the TK was designed to be used on its side if yaw free was a requirement. That is why the TK has the extra bubble level.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Re: Yaw? Going crazy between focus, movements, focus etc etc

    Thanks so much for all your responses, it is greatly appreciated. To be honest, those of you have suggested that i am not talking about yaw are correct.. Will check out the Ebony line as for me, anything that makes taking the shot easier is worth it. Thanks again for all your responses.

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