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Thread: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

  1. #1

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    Smile The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    I was surprised to read in another thread how many posters didn't really think very highly of his work, especially when compared with that of Weston.
    AA's pictures might not be drop-dead gorgeous, (a matter of opinion, there), but in addition to the superb craft, there is an element in every one of his great images -- of excitement, or joy!
    I know of only two other photographers whose work is so permeated with these wonderful qualities -- Lartigue and Erwitt.
    It's like waking up on your 6th birthday by having your face licked by a new puppy.
    Wilhelm (Sarasota)

  2. #2
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    was anyone disputing that his pictures are gorgeous? i think the debate is more about how great or how important an artist he was.

    unfortunately, people can get pretty polarized over ansel ... a guy who by most accounts you'd have a hard time not liking. i suspect that those who dismiss him outright are reacting mostly against the generations who think ansel invented photography, yosemite, light and shadow, and that he personally hung the moon over hernandez, new mexico.

    it probably doesn't help that he lapsed into repetition in his final decades, and that some of this less inspired work became some of his most popular. Or that he's been copied so much that some of us can get sick of looking at anything ansel-esq.

    i personally think that he was not, in fact, god, that he was not in the same league of creative genius as some of his contemporaries (weston, strand, stieglitz, walker evans, etc.), but that he made some important contributions that should be recognized.

    anyone interested in giving him a second look should take a look at the catalog of the big ansel retrospective that szarkowski curated several years ago. the reproductions are good (and include some lesser-known gems) and the essay is wonderful--the point about joy is not lost on szarkowski.

  3. #3

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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    I think that it's harder to see creativity in the photography of vast landscapes as opposed to photos of people, like Walker Evans' photos. The portrait photographer makes you feel invested in the photo by the way he sort of nudges you in one direction or another as far as what you're supposed to think about the person in the photo and it is all very complex and that's the portrait photographers creativity. How do you really assess the creativity of a landscape photographer though?

    The average viewer is less likely to feel invested in a landscape photo. So you have to ask what is the way into a landscape photo is, where is the door? I think it can be the technique. It's the milkiness of the clouds, the deep space telescope like view of the darkened daytime skies, the ultra sharp bristling texture of the rocks and trees. I think that's what Ansel Adams' art and creativity was, that's what he figured out. Every photo is a trick and that's what Adams knew. He knew that the photo itself was the Art and not the nature in front of the camera and that he had to make the photo, really make it, create it from nothing.

    Adams' photos might be however like jokes that you hear one time too many. Maybe the illusion dissipates over time but that just might be the problem of the viewer, jaded and too sophisticated to be fooled again.

    Well whatever it is, Adams did more than just merely leave behind some important contributions that should be recognized. What he helped to create is photography as Art.

  4. #4
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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    well, ansel had a lot of contemporaries and predecessors who were landscape photographers. some of them arguably approached the landscape with greater depth and a more sophisticated vision than he did.

    i think his most important contributions had to do with his particular relationship to the subject ... the idea that there are places that should remain sacred and (relatively) untouched. these ideas are old news now, but the use of landscape art as popular, pro-conservation documents was a major contribution of his.

    i think the whole idea that technique or illusion is the source of greatness in his work is really misplaced. it's something that the ansel clones all latch onto, and is a major reason most of their work is so insipid ... sharp, stunning prints of nothing.

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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    As I posted in another thread, his accomplishments are harder to see now. But in the 1930s and 40s, it was widely seen as fresh and innovative, even (dare I say it) cutting-edge. Remember, he got lots of respect from his contemporaries; Steiglitz, Weston, Newhall, Sheeler, et al. I've been viewing the large Adams retrospective now on at the GEH, and most of the doubts I might have about the work are blown away by viewing the actual prints themselves. If the avant-garde of 1937 has become 2007's calendar art, so be it. It happened to Van Gogh, Monet, and Matisse...

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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Barall View Post
    I think that it's harder to see creativity in the photography of vast landscapes as opposed to photos of people, like Walker Evans' photos. The portrait photographer makes you feel invested in the photo by the way he sort of nudges you in one direction or another as far as what you're supposed to think about the person in the photo and it is all very complex and that's the portrait photographers creativity. How do you really assess the creativity of a landscape photographer though? ...SNIP...
    A mildly brilliant insight, IMO, and would be a good or better thread to explore. A difference of "object" vs. "subject" (?) ... if we have an idea (a subject) to express and we use a landscape (an object) to communicate it, the weight is on the photographer to push that idea out of the objective into the subjective. If, on the other hand, we use an idea with a another subject (a person) there is almost always a collaboration between the two, some more willing and free than others, but still a joint project. It is really hard to use a person as an object.

    While Jorge and others might pooh-pooh those rambling artist statements, they can come in pretty handy when exploring landscapes... I'm thinking about Robert Adams, Mark Klett and a few others... even Sally Mann. Their words really help me to "see" what they're after, otherwise they could be easily pigieon-holed as merely another landscape. (maybe Klett is a little more on the surface)

    ...back on topic, Ansel's work fails to garner contemporary appreciation due to his enormous popularity with the masses. We tend to dismiss too easily a person who appears in our everyday surrounding like Wal-Mart and the rest. "Familiarity breeds contempt." so true, so true

    I still contend his best 'art' was the abstracts like the canyon wall over a frozen lake

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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    There are many who go out and place their tripod legs in the same tripod holes as Ansel's, in my early days of photographing landscape I did as well. Not trying to copy his images, but for the most part he really picked the best spot compositionally. He knew what he was doing. Then again it is possible for one to shoot from the same place and produce a very different image.

    Some people never progress past the point of emulating the masters. You can still see people sketching the paintings of others at museums, emulation is a learning tool for some, the limit of ability for others.

    While I too find the endless Ansel clones a bit ubiquitous it's their right to shoot what they want, but because so many have made Ansel's work seem cliche, doesn't detract from what he did originally. And copying is the highest form of flattery.

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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Baird View Post
    if we have an idea (a subject) to express and we use a landscape (an object) to communicate it, the weight is on the photographer to push that idea out of the objective into the subjective. If, on the other hand, we use an idea with a another subject (a person) there is almost always a collaboration between the two...
    also consider the idea that people like to make everything about themselves. artists make art that's about themselves in one way or another; viewers take what they're looking at to be about themselves in one way or another.

    It takes a much greater sense of abstraction to relate to a landscape than it does to relate to a person.

    I see this all the time with people who aren't used to looking at landscape. They'll make comments like "I wish there was a person in it!" It's usually too hard to explain that they're missing the point entirely.

    A related point is that sophisticated viewers always look at the subject in terms of how the art presents it--they're aware of the relationship between the subject and the object, which is often where all the interest lies in a landscape picture. More casual viewer tend to look right through the picture to the subject--"that's mom," or "that' a hill." unless there's something especially dazzling or familiar about the hill, mom will always be more interesting to this kind of audience.

  9. #9

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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    "And copying is the highest form of flattery."

    Cash works for me! <G>

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    Re: The photographs of St. Ansel, a different POV

    Quote Originally Posted by paulr View Post
    also consider the idea that people like to make everything about themselves. artists make art that's about themselves in one way or another; viewers take what they're looking at to be about themselves in one way or another.

    It takes a much greater sense of abstraction to relate to a landscape than it does to relate to a person.

    I see this all the time with people who aren't used to looking at landscape. They'll make comments like "I wish there was a person in it!" It's usually too hard to explain that they're missing the point entirely.

    A related point is that sophisticated viewers always look at the subject in terms of how the art presents it--they're aware of the relationship between the subject and the object, which is often where all the interest lies in a landscape picture. More casual viewer tend to look right through the picture to the subject--"that's mom," or "that' a hill." unless there's something especially dazzling or familiar about the hill, mom will always be more interesting to this kind of audience.
    It seems this is a nice summary of the classification system John Szarkowski put forth as "Windows and Mirrors"

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