Competency vs. Creativity

[Kirk Gittings]

Just for the sake of a good arguement. It seems to me that there is allot of confusion about "creativity".

To me, seeing beautiful, even great images, in a well established way in a well established genre is not creativity. It is competency. True creativity breaks norms, established traditions and ways of seeing. Adams (as much as I love him) was competent. Weston was truly creative.

[Henry Ambrose]

I don't think so.

I would use "innovative" to describe what you call "creative"

[John T]

Dick,

Why does an amateur need to pick one or the other? I would think that a goal could be to try to maximize both aspects in their photography. Excellence in technique means that the photographer's creativity won't be hindered by a lack of ability.

Tim,

I think that Van Gogh actually did take formal lessons at the Academy of Antwerp after he discovered that his technique wasn't good enough to communicate what he wanted to say. He was thought to have discovered Japanese perspective and the use of lighter values in his work here.

John

[John T]

Tim,

I agree with your comparison of "innovative" and "creative". I compare the process of creativity with scientific/historical process. It starts with inspiration (hypothesis), which leads to creativity (theory), which in turn leads to innovation (proof).

The more knowledge/ability you have at each step will allow you to more fully investigate and test out your ideas.

John

[tim atherton]

I think that Van Gogh actually did take formal lessons at the Academy of Antwerp after he discovered that his technique wasn't good enough to communicate what he wanted to say. He was thought to have discovered Japanese perspective and the use of lighter values in his work here.

John

I think only for a total time of 1 - 2 months? He spent more time at the studio of Fernand Cormon in Paris, but it was, I recall, a fairly informal arrangement and was again only for a few months

[Michael Graves]

IMHO, Weston was no more creative than Adams, using your definition. Wynn Bullock was creative, adding the dimension of time to his images and creating vast forests in microcosms. Minor White was creative, discovering cosmos on a windowpane.

[Brian K]

The term creativity is over used and easily abused. It's for the most part a subjective opinion and being creative can also be used as a means to justify pretty horrible work.
Competency is less subjective as there are more or less accepted definitions and norms, also a truly competent photographer will always come through with something at least worthwhile.

I agree with Henry's use of "innovative" as a better description of your definition.

[Dick Hilker]

Do you see any interdependence of the two -- innovation and competence? Innovation without competence would risk missing the point, whereas competence, in a dull sort of way, probably could plod along without being particularly innovative.

Which do you feel is a better goal for an amateur, or does it really matter?

[Mike Chini]

I agree with Kirk entirely. When creating anything, it is my own struggle to break free of convention and create. In other words, if confronted with a beautiful sunset, I'm always instinctively led to take pictures I've seen in the past, even subconsciously.

I once took music lessons from a famous 60's musician for a year. It was one of the best experiences of my life. The first time I walked into his basement, I was shocked at the total lack of any music in his apartment. I expected there to be a huge collection of records and books etc. There was nothing. There was his instrument, a tape recorder and some sheet music. He told me he basically stopped listening to music a long time ago. He reached a point where he understood music from a very advanced but fundamental place and wanted a clear mind with which to create. It continues to give me a lot to think about. I'm convinced to this day that great artists spend the vast majority of their time creating rather than enjoying others' work.

[roteague]

Just for the sake of a good arguement. It seems to me that there is allot of confusion about "creativity".

To me, seeing beautiful, even great images, in a well established way in a well established genre is not creativity. It is competency. True creativity breaks norms, established traditions and ways of seeing. Adams (as much as I love him) was competent. Weston was truly creative.

I don't agree with you at all. There are natural rhythms and patterns to nature, which manifest themselves in the world around us. Little things like the arrangements of petals in a flower, the patterns on a tree. The trick is trying to see them in a way which is pleasing - that is creativity. I don't see it as a matter of "competency" at all. As for Adams and Weston, I see both as creative, although I really don't care for Weston's work at all.