Wista 45SP folding with 90/6.8 Angulon + 135/5.6 Sironar-S + 240/9 Fujinon A

[Bob Salomon]

If you read about what Linhof does (or did) with these lenses it's mostly a matter of matching a particular lens to a particular camera when they left the factory together and closer manufacturing tolerances. If you don't own the camera/shutter to which the lens was originally matched then that benefit disappears and the manufacturing tolerances when the lens came from the factory may or may not still be applicable when the lens is long gone from the factory. So personally I wouldn't pay the extra 10% or so premium that used Linhof Select lenses sometimes command.

No that isn't what Linhof does.

Linhof (and Sinar) both purchased a Rodenstock manufactured Siemens Star projector (a huge floor standing thing that moves on rails). The lens is first examined in a dark box with an indirect light in it to check for particles, bubbles or other things in the glass and between the elements of the lens. If found they try to clean them out before proceeding further with testing. If they can not be cleaned out the lenses are returned to the Schneider or Rodenstock factories. The lenses that pass are then checked for shutter speed accuracy. Those that fail are adjusted or returned. The passed lenses are then mounted in the Rodenstock projector that projects Siemens Star patterns on to a large wall. An examiner stands by the wall and examines the patterns projected. He has a remote control in his hand that allows him to rotate the lens in the projector. By watching the formation and patterns of Siemens Stars he can detect problems with the lenses within the field area that the lens is capable of covering.

Some lenses that test particularly well for a certain format (say 617 or 612) are reserved for use on Technorama cameras. These lenses that are spectacular performers on the panoramics might not be the best for a 4x5 or 5x7 camera. But since they perform particularly well within the required panoramic area they are put aside for those cameras.

The rest of the lenses, after passing, are then silk screened on the front or rear element with the Linhof logo and are re-packaged for sale as a taking lens. They are not matched to a specific body or camera type.
Lenses that fail the projector test are returned to the manufacturer.

Note that all lenses tested have already passed the lens manufacturer's QC tests before they are sent out to Linhof.

And the premium is well above 10%.

[Frank Petronio]

I'm a nerd... I love those little Angulons, they work great and I defy you to tell me which shots were done with one versus the Grandagons I've also had, both the 90/6.8 and 90/4.5. You just have to stop them down and the IC increases enough to be movable, at least for landscapes.

But by all means, spend more...

[Richard Kelham]

I'm a nerd... I love those little Angulons, they work great and I defy you to tell me which shots were done with one versus the Grandagons I've also had, both the 90/6.8 and 90/4.5. You just have to stop them down and the IC increases enough to be movable, at least for landscapes.

I agree with Frank. Shot straight on @ f22 I can't tell the difference between the Angulon and the Super Angulon in terms of sharpness (I have one of each). Obviously, if I'm doing architectural stuff I'll use the Super, otherwise....



Richard

[Ole Tjugen]

I use a 90/6.8 Angulon for 4x5", unless I need LOTS of movements. I tend to use my 90/8 Super Angulon more often on 5x7" than on 4x5", too.

Search for earlier Angulon threads, and I'm sure you'll find a link to my quick informal comparison of two 90mm Angulons of different age. IMO they are both good enough, although they don't cover 5x7" (for any normal definition of 'cover'".

[Brian Ellis]

No that isn't what Linhof does.

Linhof (and Sinar) both purchased a Rodenstock manufactured Siemens Star projector (a huge floor standing thing that moves on rails). The lens is first examined in a dark box with an indirect light in it to check for particles, bubbles or other things in the glass and between the elements of the lens. If found they try to clean them out before proceeding further with testing. If they can not be cleaned out the lenses are returned to the Schneider or Rodenstock factories. The lenses that pass are then checked for shutter speed accuracy. Those that fail are adjusted or returned. The passed lenses are then mounted in the Rodenstock projector that projects Siemens Star patterns on to a large wall. An examiner stands by the wall and examines the patterns projected. He has a remote control in his hand that allows him to rotate the lens in the projector. By watching the formation and patterns of Siemens Stars he can detect problems with the lenses within the field area that the lens is capable of covering.

Some lenses that test particularly well for a certain format (say 617 or 612) are reserved for use on Technorama cameras. These lenses that are spectacular performers on the panoramics might not be the best for a 4x5 or 5x7 camera. But since they perform particularly well within the required panoramic area they are put aside for those cameras.

The rest of the lenses, after passing, are then silk screened on the front or rear element with the Linhof logo and are re-packaged for sale as a taking lens. They are not matched to a specific body or camera type.
Lenses that fail the projector test are returned to the manufacturer.

Note that all lenses tested have already passed the lens manufacturer's QC tests before they are sent out to Linhof.

And the premium is well above 10%.

Wow. Thanks for the correction. You have more knowledge than I do but the description of what Linhof does that's contained in the Linhof Report I used to own says nothing like that. Of course my Linhof Report was written quite a while ago so presumably things have changed. All the Report talks about is matching the lens to camera and I think something about dismantling and inspecting a lens and shutter. In any event, thanks for the information. As to the 10% premium, that's a typical premium in my experience for Linhof select lenses on the used market.

[Brian Ellis]

Wow. Thanks for the correction. You have more knowledge than I do but the description of what Linhof does that's contained in the Linhof Report I used to own says nothing like that. Of course my Linhof Report was written quite a while ago so presumably things have changed. All the Report talks about is matching the lens to camera and I think something about dismantling and inspecting a lens and shutter. In any event, thanks for the information. As to the 10% premium, that's a typical premium in my experience for Linhof select lenses on the used market.

After posting the above message I found an old thread here in which I quoted the description of what's done to a Linhof select lens from the Linhof Report to which I referred above. Here it is:

The "Linhof Select" system as explained in a Linhof Report circa 1975 involved the purchase of lenses that were then "thoroughly examined and checked to make sure they correspond to the most critical tolerances and to guarantee their perfect functioning with the corresponding Linhof camera." After this process was completed the lens was engraved with the Linhof name and "transferred to the other production departments for final assembly, mounting, and rangefinder coupling" with a particular camera.

Apparently the current process is much more extensive.

[pmazolo]

So, now I got from ebay an Angulon 90/6,8 a Sironar-N 135/5.6 and Fujinon A 240/9. All probably a bit overpriced, but I also value my time...;-) The 240 will probably not fold into my Wista 45SP, but i'll have to live with that (unless someone has a suggestion in the 210-300mm range that will cover 4x5 with some movement, will fold into the camera and has decent quality). I understand the Angulon will allow very little movement and give a bit soft corners....are there any alternatives in the 90mm range at all that could fold into the camera while covering a bit more and having no worse than f6.8 and decent quality??
Rgds
PM

[Sheldon N]

Buy Jack Flesher's 90mm Super Angulon that he just posted for sale. It will give you more movements and better corner performance. I personally would not worry too much about whether the lens will fold in the camera. All you need is one lens that will fold in the camera. The other two can stay in the pack!

Jack's a great guy to deal with, and if he says the lens is laser sharp, it is definitely laser sharp. $475 is a fair price, too.

[Frank Petronio]

A Rodenstock 210/6.8 Geronar in a Copal 1 shutter and flat lensboard will fold because I had one and it was a nice, sharp lens. Look for a later multi-coated one in a late model (black dial) Copal shutter.

Actually I take that back. It folded into a Technika. The SP might be slightly different with the rails...

A Scheider Xenar 210/5.6 might - might fit as well.

[Ole Tjugen]

I don't know about the 210/5.6 Xenar, or if indeed there is such a lens. The older 210mm Xenars were f:4.5, and came in Compound 3 shutters.

But the 210/6.1 Xenar should fit - it's in a Copal 1 shutter.