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  1. #1

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    Question **Hyperfocal**

    One-how necessary is this to using a 4x5:


    Two-is there a simple explaination of it and how to use it:


    three- how important is it to photography :
    Thanks for any or all responce's:

  2. #2

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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    It's important if you want things in focus.

  3. #3
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    It is also important to know when NOT to use it.

  4. #4

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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    If you focus a lens at infinity the closest area of the scene that will appear to be sharp is called the hyperfocal distance for a particular lens at a particular aperture. If you set the focus at the hyperfocal distance then in theory depth of field will extend from half that distance to infinity. The idea is that by focusing at the hyperfocal distance you'll maximize depth of field (i.e. the area of the scene that will appear to be "sharp" in the photograph).

    Determining the hyperfocal distance for a particular lens at each aperture used to be relatively easy to do with smaller format lenses because many lenses had scales of hyperfocal distance at each aperture marked on the lens. However, large format lenses don't have those scales so to use this technique with large format lenses you need tables of hyperfocal distances for each lens you own. There are a couple problems with the tables. First, they are based on somebody else's idea of what will appear acceptably sharp to you. Second, they assume a print of a certain size which may not be the size print you make. Third, when you're in the field it isn't always easy to figure out exactly where in the scene the hyperfocal distance is.

    But most importantly, the ability to change the plane of focus by using front and back movements on a large format camera often gives you greater control and better results IMHO than trying to use they hyperfocal distance technique will. So for all of these reasons I haven't found this technique necessary or even useful for large format photography but perhaps others have found it more useful than I have.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  5. #5

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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    Hyperfocal is used a lot in handheld 4x5 press camera photography especially when taking "action shots" like street photography. It is pretty easy to just point the thing and shoot.

  6. #6

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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    This page contains concise, clear explanations of hyperfocal focusing and zone focusing and the practical differences between them: http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/ma.../focusing.html

    If you do street photography, you will spend a lot of time taking photographs without focusing through the viewfinder, focusng instead based on your estimate of the distance between you and your subject. This is done either because you want to seize the moment and frame and take the photograph quickly, or because you are shooting without looking through the viewfinder at all, instead just pointing the lens at your subject (called shooting from the hip). Some people who do street photography prefer hyperfocal focusing and some prefer zone focusing, and it depends in part on the focal length of the lens that you are using.

    For both 4x5 and street photography, I tend to go with zone focusing, focusing on a plane of focus in 4x5 and focusing for street, using 35mm and 6x7 cameras, based on estimated distance. However, I don't do landscape work, in which case I might make greater use of hyperfocal focusing. I say "might" because Brian Ellis makes the very good point that if one is in the field with a 4x5 taking landscape photographs, it may not be so easy to figure out what the hyperfocal distance is, in which case it makes for great theory but perhaps less great reality. People here who do landscape work are a lot better placed than I am to say how useful the idea is in practice.

    If you have a 35mm SLR or rangefinder camera with a shortish lens, say 35mm, and a longish lens, say 90mm, try reading the discussion in the link with the lenses in hand. You will get a very concrete appreciation for what the two approaches are about, and how they differ. You will also see why focusing based on estimated distance gets very tricky with a longish lens. Unless you are using pretty small apertures (e.g. f22), which in turn requires lots of light, your estimate has to be pretty dead on. If a lot of street photographs are made with 35mm lenses, it is in part because there is more room for error in estimated distance. Which doesn't explain why I persist in doing street photography with a 6x7 camera and 80mm lens. Must be my masochistic side. One of the rewards from using larger formats for this kind of work, and consequently longer lenses, is that one quickly learns to appreciate people like Weegee. With the greatest respect to Cyrus, it is not "pretty easy to just point the thing and shoot" It takes a lot of practice, and you have to do it frequently to stay in practice.
    Last edited by r.e.; 4-Jun-2007 at 08:57.

  7. #7
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrus View Post
    Hyperfocal is used a lot in handheld 4x5 press camera photography especially when taking "action shots" like street photography. It is pretty easy to just point the thing and shoot.
    Absolutely right. I use hyperfocal with the 105 mm Agnar on my Speed Graphic -- for one thing, the lens only covers the corners of 4x5 if focused to about 12 feet, which is conveniently hyperfocal at f/22 and smaller. So, I set the focus to 12 feet, lock the rail, stop down to f/22, and use the focal plane shutter with the front shutter locked open, or the three-speed front shutter, depending what speeds I need (with ISO 400 film in daylight, in a city core, I typically need 1/25 to 1/100, which either shutter covers nicely).

    I have to guess on composition, though, because that lens puts the standard too far back to raise the wire frame finder, and the FOV is far wider than the tube finder can show (it's about like a 60 mm on 6x7 cm).

    I could do the same thing with my 13.5 cm f/4.5 Skopar, except that it only goes to f/45 and hyperfocal, for that lens and aperture and the circle of confusion I'm comfortable with is, about 16 feet, which makes the near limit of 8 feet a little farther away than is convenient. Compromise is called for -- I focus at ten feet, which gives DOF from about 6 to 30 feet and a slightly out of focus background; works very well for people shots. However, I have my RF calibrated for the 13.5 cm lens...
    If a contact print at arm's length is too small to see, you need a bigger camera. :D

  8. #8

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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    Don,

    As I said, it works fine at f22.

    Right now, I'm in a pub with a Mamiya 7 shooting people watching an NHL playoff game with HP5 rated at 1600 and f4. That is a two stop push, and pretty thin depth of field. And at that, this is pushing me to a shutter speed of 1/4 second, which is a bit of a trick with an 80mm lens. If I had my Leica with me, I'd be shooting at f2.

    Two weeks ago, I was shooting in the NY subway system, below ground, where one is often about 6 feet from one's subject, meaning that f22 and the kind of latitude that you are talking about is a pipe dream.

    And speaking personally, from a photographic point of view when shooting people, f22 is a long way from where I want to be, even if I can get there.

    I think that a lot depends on what you want to do as a street photographer.

    One thing that is clear, when Bruce Davidson did his NY subway series, he was nowher near f22. Not even if he did most of those photos in above-ground parts of the system. Indeed, having been down there two weeks ago taking a lot of photographs, I'm planning to take a hard look at his book, because honestly, what he did is not, in my respectful view, easy.

    If you and Cyrus find that this kind of photography is a snap, I can only express my admiration.

    If either of you could upload some examples of your 4x5 street photography, I'd really love to see them, and learn.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by r.e.; 4-Jun-2007 at 21:59.

  9. #9

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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    Quote Originally Posted by r.e. View Post
    Don,

    As I said, it works fine at f22.

    Right now, I'm in a pub with a Mamiya 7 shooting people watching an NHL playoff game with HP5 rated at 1600 and f4. That is a two stop push, and pretty thin depth of field. And at that, this is pushing me to a shutter speed of 1/4 second, which is a bit of a trick with an 80mm lens. If I had my Leica with me, I'd be shooting at f2.

    Two weeks ago, I was shooting in the NY subway system, below ground, where one is often about 6 feet from one's subject, meaning that f22 and the kind of latitude that you are talking about is a pipe dream.

    And speaking personally, from a photographic point of view when shooting people, f22 is a long way from where I want to be, even if I can get there.

    I think that a lot depends on what you want to do as a street photographer.

    One thing that is clear, when Bruce Davidson did his NY subway series, he was nowher near f22. Not even if he did most of those photos in above-ground parts of the system. Indeed, having been down there two weeks ago taking a lot of photographs, I'm planning to take a hard look at his book, because honestly, what he did is not, in my respectful view, easy.

    If you and Cyrus find that this kind of photography is a snap, I can only express my admiration.

    If either of you could upload some examples of your 4x5 street photography, I'd really love to see them, and learn.

    Cheers.
    I don't mean to suggest that it was a snap. I said that press photographers used hyperfocal and that once they got the setting, it became easy to take a fast shot (meaning without having to worry about focusing) The whole point and reason for using hyperfocal focusing in street photography is to avoid the need to focus. But of course it is a compromise solution that risks poor exposure and composition (those things could be dealt with later though.)

    If I understand your point, I think you're saying that f/22 is too small an aperture setting to get a decent exposure in most of your street photography situations. But I don't know why you think hyperfocal focusing is limited to f/22 settings (could it be that your personal style of street photography is of somewhat dark places like inside bars and on subway stations)

    I occasionally use hyperfocal in street photography in well-light situations where f/16 to f/22 using 400 speed film allows an acceptable shutter speed for handheld photography.

    But there is (at least theoretically) no reason why you can't use HF to, say, up to f/8 if you combine the use of hyperfocal focusing with zone focussing and a quick check of the distance scale on your camera:

    With a 127 mm lens on a 4x5 camera, and the online hyperfocal chart:

    At f/22, you focus at 16 ft and the zone of sharpness starts at 8 ft.

    At f/16, you focus at 22 ft and the sharpness starts at 11ft

    At f/8, you focus at 44 ft and the sharpness starts at 22 ft

    (after f/8, we're going from street photography to landscape photography!)

    So, using ths hyperfocal chart (taped to the back of your Speed Graphic) you can still quickly take a shot even in less well-lit situations which require larger aperture settings than f/22, by simply doing a quick adjustment of the distance scale as you lift the camera to your face. Adjusting the distance scale is an extra step but you're still saving time since you still avoid any need to focus.

    ( Of course you have to be a good judge of distance too - how far is 22 feet or 44 ft?)

    Add to that the exposure latittude of BW film and you get even more flexibility in setting exposure.

    Anyway, that;s how the press photogs did it. Perhaps they weren't as picky as we are.
    Last edited by cyrus; 5-Jun-2007 at 00:25.

  10. #10

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    Re: **Hyperfocal**

    Dear seawolf66,

    Here are 3 good links. In addition, peruse the forum home page as it has links to all sorts of great information.

    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...IntroToDoF.pdf

    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...DoFinDepth.pdf

    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/fstop.html

    Neal Wydra

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