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Thread: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

  1. #1

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    What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    All: I posted the message below on the APUG website and then thought it would be a good idea to post it here, too. Regards, Markus Albertz


    I remember reading this post a while ago:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/2...den-death.html

    and thinking "what an unlucky fellow, of course it is highly unlikely that this will ever happen to me".

    Well, several months, about 60 underexposed Efke 8x10 negatives, and a lengthy period of questioning and analyzing my processing routine later, it finally caught up with me and I remembered the above posting...

    Turns out, I had (2) 50 sheet boxes of Efke PL100 with emulsion number 510612 (note that EM 510613 in the above post was among the ones that were described as consistently underexposed). My own film speed testing and printing completed just last night confirms that my film packaged as PL100 is in fact PL50!

    Needless to say that this is rather frustrating, and together with an emulsion flaw on a previous box of Efke (sinoidal banding consistently running along the long sides of the sheets), I think I will use up my remaining supplies of Efke and then switch products.

    I even consider testing every box of sheet film from now on. One sheet from the top, another from the bottom should be somewhat representative of what is actually in the box.

    Anyway, this is more of a rant than of any importance. On the other hand, I am sure others have Efke sheet film in the freezer. If you do, check the emulsion number and see if you are anywhere near 510612.

    Regards,

    Markus Albertz

  2. #2

    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Goods pros test every bath of any film before use.

  3. #3

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    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Quote Originally Posted by ronald moravec View Post
    Goods pros test every bath of any film before use.

    Ah... that is a useful piece of wisdom. I will be sure to test my bath water next time
    my film and I take a bath. That should make me a betters pros.

    (tongue in cheek).

  4. #4
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Markus, there have been several reports from time to time of problems with efke film but most of them have to do with cutting. Where did you buy the film? I ask because there are several discount film suppliers in the US (and maybe Europe) that sell steeply discounted efke and other Central European film that is seconds ... that is the reason for the steep discount, although such film is usually marked as seconds. Did you contact yoru supplier about a return?

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    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Harris View Post
    Markus, there have been several reports from time to time of problems with efke film but most of them have to do with cutting. Where did you buy the film? I ask because there are several discount film suppliers in the US (and maybe Europe) that sell steeply discounted efke and other Central European film that is seconds ... that is the reason for the steep discount, although such film is usually marked as seconds. Did you contact yoru supplier about a return?
    Ted, I bought the film from JandC a while back. It was a regular sales item. At this point, I feel uneasy about contacting them. For one, I did not keep the receipt, and I have had the film in the freezer quite a while before I got around to using it. This particular batch is fine but one needs to understand that it is 50 speed film, not 100 as indicated on the box. Best regards, Markus

  6. #6
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Did you shoot PL100 from the same source before and test it at EI 100? If not, it may just be that PL100 is EI 50 with whatever developer/time/temperature/agitation you are using.

    I've found that Fortepan 400 can drift as much as a half stop between batches, and John from J&C thought it was likely a storage issue, since I had obtained the different batches from different suppliers, and that is a film known to be sensitive to storage conditions.

    I would think that an ISO 100 film would be less sensitive to storage problems than an ISO 400 film, but if the film is maybe EI 80 in a certain developer and then has lost a little speed due to storage, and maybe is off a bit to begin with due to quality control, it wouldn't be too far to get to EI 50.

    After noting the speed drift with Fortepan 400, whenever I buy a new batch of one of these films, I usually run a simple test against the previous batch--one scene, one film on one side of a holder, the other batch on the other side, expose in sequence, and develop together, and if I notice a speed difference, I write the new speed on the box, possibly with further testing.

  7. #7

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    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Did you shoot PL100 from the same source before and test it at EI 100? If not, it may just be that PL100 is EI 50 with whatever developer/time/temperature/agitation you are using.

    I've found that Fortepan 400 can drift as much as a half stop between batches, and John from J&C thought it was likely a storage issue, since I had obtained the different batches from different suppliers, and that is a film known to be sensitive to storage conditions.

    I would think that an ISO 100 film would be less sensitive to storage problems than an ISO 400 film, but if the film is maybe EI 80 in a certain developer and then has lost a little speed due to storage, and maybe is off a bit to begin with due to quality control, it wouldn't be too far to get to EI 50.

    After noting the speed drift with Fortepan 400, whenever I buy a new batch of one of these films, I usually run a simple test against the previous batch--one scene, one film on one side of a holder, the other batch on the other side, expose in sequence, and develop together, and if I notice a speed difference, I write the new speed on the box, possibly with further testing.
    David, I think can definitely exlude that the film is PL100 (that is, 100 speed film). I ran through 3 boxes of normal PL100 (2 from JandC, 1 from fotoimpex; all 3 consistent) before starting a new box and noticing the problem. I routinely expose PL100 at 50 speed and develop it in ABC Pyro 1-1-1-7. I tested film from the mystery box against my old PL100 and exposed at 12 and 25 speed. The sheets exposed at 25 come closest to my normal PL100. Now, whether the film is PL50 that was packaged wrongly, or PL100 with substantial speed loss owing to whatever reason, I cannot differentiate. Anyway, the lesson I learned is to test random samples from every box from now on. Best, Markus

  8. #8
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Quote Originally Posted by muskedear View Post
    I routinely expose PL100 at 50 speed and develop it in ABC Pyro 1-1-1-7.
    Me too, so at least we're testing it the same.

    If it's PL50, the spectral sensitivity is somewhat different. I think PL25 and PL50 have less red sensitivity than PL100. You might test the filter factor with orange and red filters against some known PL100 and see if you get a different result.

  9. #9

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    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Me too, so at least we're testing it the same.

    If it's PL50, the spectral sensitivity is somewhat different. I think PL25 and PL50 have less red sensitivity than PL100. You might test the filter factor with orange and red filters against some known PL100 and see if you get a different result.
    That is a good point, David, and it might amplify the problem when using filters. The spectral sensitivity of PL25 and PL50 are very similar if not identical, and they both are less red-sensitive than PL100. You can see curves on the fotoimpex website if you click the ADOX CHS 25, CHS 50, or CHS 100 links here (they are supposed to be identical to the corresponding Efke films):

    http://www.adox.eu/ADOX_Filme/ADOX_C...CHS_Filme.html

    Best, Markus Albertz

  10. #10

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    Re: What's in the box? Another Efke victim...

    Every time I get film from a different emulsion batch, I test it for EI and development time.It doesn't matter which company made it, this is the only way to prevent wasting large amounts of film.

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