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Thread: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

  1. #1

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    Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    It seems like all the lens makers within the last couple of decades have LF lens series that are Plasmats with a maximum aperture of f5.6. These would include models from Schneider, Rodenstock, Fuji and until recently Nikon. In the past there was more variety of lens designs...why have modern lenses become so "standardized" (for want of a better term) as to design? Is there no room for variety? such as Protars, Dagors, (type designs)??

  2. #2

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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    The max aperture is limited by the size of the shutter. There are certain practical and economic constraints placed on the manufacturing and design. Also an issue of how many units they can sell. It's determined FAR MORE - i would think - by the market.

  3. #3

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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    Good question. It must be performance/price equations... Schneider discontinued hte Dagors while introducing the Symmar-S. Kodak's 4-element W.F. Ektar was eclipsed by the Super-Angulon types, when LF optics were in their decline in the '60s. f/18 Protars might have been a tough sell... it's like asking where are the straight-8 and V-16 engines of the '30s in today's cars? Or the Saab 3-cylinder 2-stroke motor? More conventional designs proved to be better and easier to engineer for modern performance?

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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    So, now, for the most part we have these Huge lenses, very heavy (for 8x10), and very cumbersome (for ultra-wide-angle), when in the past compact lightweight lenses designs even had more coverage, and plenty of sharpness, considering negative size. (I know the Ektars did not have wide coverage)

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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    I'll just bet you that an f18 Protar would sell now. small glass, small shutter. Lower price than the big bricks.

  6. #6

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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    Perhaps the manufacturers are all using the same computer and optical engineering software? Grin.

    Then there is the price-point for how far do you go with cutting edge design, and still make a profit.
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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    And let's look at the size of the market. They tell me that LF usage went into decline in the sixties, when 35mm became king. Since my involvement in LF, c.1980, there's been a resurgence of interest, but the vast number of fine used lenses means that everyone hasn't had to buy new. Just think of the end of LF lens production by these makers in the last 40 years: Kodak, B&L, Wollensak, Goerz, Ilex, Zeiss, Docter, Nikon...
    and Fuji no longer recognizes the US market. That leaves Schneider and Rodenstock. The designers of both companies have concentrated on more modern lens designs, rather than trying to tune-up ideas from long ago. Certainly Schneider has brought out some innovative wide-angle designs- the Super-Symmar HM for one. It's likely that they hey have seen the market as commercial studio photographers who like such "non-artistic" (see that other thread) features like sharpness and contrast, and the old designs just can't be tweaked as far. Even Porsche gave up on the air-cooled six engine, after 50+ years. Maybe you can ask Cooke to bring back the Protar... just be ready to pay the price.

  8. #8
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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene McCluney View Post
    I'll just bet you that an f18 Protar would sell now. small glass, small shutter. Lower price than the big bricks.
    I bet there just wouldn't be the market to justify it

    I think part of the homogenisation was the manufacturers competing for the same market - they major market with by far the biggest share was probably fashion/auto/product photographers, followed by architecture? (or something alogn those lines)

    The characteristics you seem to dislike would be selling points for most of them

    Guys lugging 8x10's around photographing rocks and landscapes were (and probably still are) not significant enough a market.

    Look at Cooke - it seems there really wasn't even the market for their fantastic lens revivals
    You'd be amazed how small the demand is for pictures of trees... - Fred Astaire to Audrey Hepburn

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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    Come to think of it- I put a nice, coated, 5x7 Protar up for sale here last month, and only two people responded; neither of them wanted to buy it. It's still for sale...

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    Re: Why modern LF lenses all so similar between brands?

    I'm really upset at the shortlived Cooke revival.

    I really enjoy the couple old barrel lenses I have. I would love to have the money available to buy their modern lenses. I guess my shallow pockets can't justify my interests.

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