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Thread: Fatali prints: digital ?

  1. #21

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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    Yes I made that orginal statement. Yes I have seen a whole lot of his prints up close and personal. Yes I know the people who work for him. Yes I have heard the sales hype his gallery manager tells people. Yes I have read his comments. Problem is in this small area of the world, we are a even smaller community of photographers. Another problem is people here tend to talk in this small community. So you have the people who work for him telling me first hand what happens behind his darkroom/lightroom doors. I had one bring me one of the reject prints that was inkjet printed. Let me say right here that I could care less how he produces his images, so long as there is truth behind it. Call it what it is. Is there some reason that it has to be hype manipulated to sell it as well?

    One lady who lives here took one of his classes. She was so proud of what she learned in it, and one of his people taught her how to print it out on a printer. Those same prints are hanging at a local Arby's on Hwy 9 and I-15 interchange. When I first moved here they looked ok color wise. Now they look horrible with the colors having faded quite a bit. Yet she claims they are made with the same inks that Fataili uses. I hope the unsuspecting that paid big bucks for a traditional darkroom print who do not know the difference if they unframed it, have better luck with the color fading.

    Is honesty such a far fetched concept? Be proud of what you produce no matter the medium used. It is an extension of you.

    BTW I saw Bob Carnie's prints from his Elevator gallery on the new Ilford paper where a digtal enlarger (can't remember the name of the darn machine) was used on the paper to then be processed in the wet darkroom. They were stunning. I even have one negative that is a PIA to print that I'm considering having Bob print via this technology for me. I would be upfront about how it was produced. After all I'm even saying it in this worldwide forum right now.

  2. #22

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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian K View Post
    All I care about is the final image.
    Well, I do care about more than the final image. I care about the ethics behind an image as well.

  3. #23
    Scott Rosenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    just to be clear, i have no problem if fatali adds some 'zing' to his images between capture and print. there are two things that i find loathsome in his practices...

    first, he flagrantly misrepresents his process. he goes to great lengths, makes it a keystone of his whole pitch, to claim he employs no manipulation, which simply is not the case.

    if that wasn't enough to keep me out of his camp, he then gets caught breaking the law and permanently damaging a national treasure in order to take a photograph. this done in front of a group of students! what message is he sending?

    he's a snake-oil salesman out to satisfy his own ends no matter what the cost.

  4. #24

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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    Quote Originally Posted by roteague View Post
    Well, I do care about more than the final image. I care about the ethics behind an image as well.
    I care about the ethics as well. I think misrepresentation of what you do is pretty bad. I have no problem with the photographer manipulating the image any way they want, just as long as they represent that honestly.

  5. #25
    Photographer, Machinist, etc. Jeffrey Sipress's Avatar
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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    I agree with Jools. I have looked closely at his prints and have seen a few places where the mask was misaligned. It indicated to me the he is making these prints in the darkroom. He does know how to get maximum saturation by manipulating exposure and through darkroom technique.

    Still, his strength lies in his marketing, and, of course, he will always be a legend in his own mind.

  6. #26
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    When I first moved here they looked ok color wise. Now they look horrible with the colors having faded quite a bit.
    This is not necessarily an indication that they are inkjet. Wilhelm's greatest error was his huge initial over estimation of the archival properties of Cibachrome/Ilfochrome which went from 400-600 years to now 100 years when mounted properly and hung under proper conditions ie minimal uv exposure. This current estimation is no better than a good pigment ink print.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  7. #27

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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie View Post
    BTW I saw Bob Carnie's prints from his Elevator gallery on the new Ilford paper where a digtal enlarger (can't remember the name of the darn machine) was used on the paper to then be processed in the wet darkroom.
    It is a Lambda printer. Bob has printed Ilfochromes for me on the same machine. Bob's work is outstanding - I hope he has been able to work out the supply issue with Ilfochromes.

  8. #28

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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    Well, for me, it's not totally about the final image.....I may place a different value on the image based on its 'manipulation'. I.e. There's capturing an image with no manipulation and then there's creating an image with lots of manipulation. There's creating an image behind the glass....and in the computer or under the enlarger....again, I will place different values....I appreciate the work for different reasons...Eisenstadt, Bresson, etc. Koudelka - capturing the moment, creating an image behind the glass and basically straight printing, to the heavily photoshop, digitally manipulated images from other photographers, or even the occassional barnbaum darkroom manipulation....even Kenna will create quite a bit in the darkroom...

    What is important to me is false advertising/marketing...my guess is that most of the buyers of Fatali's work probably could care less if the image were doctored or not...they still think its cool and would most likely buy it anyway...for their sake I hope they don't fade....

    But don't claim it was 'natural' and lay claim to some great visionary of capturing an image behind the glass...

    For one of my slot canyon photo's that is a better seller, I have a test print that demonstrates no digital color manipulation of the image to show to prospective buyers...

  9. #29
    Michael E. Gordon
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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    I, too, have an issue with his misrepresentation of "natural light". Anyone who has been to The Racetrack at DV will likely agree that this is fairly impossible light and color for the location. He waited only five days for it, according to his website. Most would wait indefinitely and still never get to see what Fatali apparently did.

  10. #30
    Founder QT Luong's Avatar
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    Re: Fatali prints: digital ?

    Maybe I have not stated that clearly, but it is not my wish to pass any judgement on Fatali's ethics, nor stirr a debate in that direction. I find his images superb, but as a photographer, I am wondering how the kind of colors that can be seen in his "Light of Zion" gallery are produced, and if indeed they needed a little help from digital. I have reviewed Christopher Burkett's book on the static page of this site, and seen the prints in Carmel. To my eyes, the colors do not look "out of this world", and it is not part of Burkett's goal to make them so. By the way, I remain skeptical that Fatali would use inkjet for his gallery prints as the evidence reported seems very circumstantial at best.

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