Chamonix is coming!

[rob]

Is the lens in the 4th pic a hypergon? what FL and format is that?

[Hugo Zhang]

Rob,

It's a 120mm Hypergon with the star. Custom made 12x20 Chamonix camera.

[GPS]

...

I have been around here for a while. I don't trade stuff here in this forum, so I have neither a fine nor a bad reputation. Sometimes I might not be modest, but I am always honest....I will post prices and techical information as soon as tomorrow.

You must be kidding! You don't trade stuff here in this forum? What is then all this fuss about prices and delivery conditions about?
Always honest? You're brazenly declaring that you want to start to sell the Chinese counterfeit in the world (as so many Chinese in the world do in the same brazen way) and you call yourself honest? The Chinese way perhaps. I hope that those manufacturers that had parts of their cameras copied by this pseudo firm will kick your honest business the right way. In Europe they throw away tons of the Chinese counterfeit trademarks each year. Hope it will be the same with your imported cameras.

[Hugo Zhang]

GPS,

I don't know you. Please have a life!

hugo

[GPS]

So do you trade cameras here in this forum or not?

[GPS]

No, Chamonix does not want 100% of your US money for themselves. The savings will be passed on to the buyers. Chamonix was not eager to get into US market, blame this on Hugo, he thought he was doing something to help the ULF market and some people here might be interested. ...
I have helped somebody here with custom made film holders by Chamonix and he sent me a check after he received the holders and was happy with them. For cameras in their factory, you send me a check for the camera and once you receive the camera and are happy with it, you send me another check to cover the shipping which is around $300 for a 7x17 plus a film holder. The shipping time is 2-3 weeks from China by air.

For custom made cameras, there is a 6 month waiting and a 50% deposit is required.

.... Sometimes I might not be modest, but I am always honest.
I will post prices and techical information as soon as tomorrow.

Quotes from someone that doesn't "sell stuff here in this forum"! He is always honest...

[GPS]

Hi Hugo, is this LF forum the shopping window for the "Chamonix" cameras whos' parts are "of course, copied, but not mindlessly"? The Chinese counterfeit sold in this forum -is that your idea of helping the LF cause?

[rob]

The more ULF cameras are sold, the more (ULF) films will be used, and that will keep the film manufacturers producing films. This is a good thing in the crazy digital age now. Therefore, it's good to keep people manufacturing LF/ULF cameras, regardless how they do it. I think this is really helping the LF cause.

[GPS]

Hugo, with your business proposals in this thread you're in violation of guidelines for commercial announcements in this forum.

[Paul Droluk]

As I see it, there are three different issues at hand here, which I would like to address in the order of least importance (to me personally)...

First is the issue of copying designs. Fact of the matter is that there is virtually nothing that is truly new in the world of film cameras, especially LF cameras, and manufacturers have always looked carefully at their competitors designs, incorporating desirable features into new iterations. It's the nature of competition in any marketplace. For those few exceptions, where a distinctly unique design is conceived, there is ample protection afforded through execution of patents and copyrights and their subsequent enforcement.

Secondly, the issue of utilizing this Forum as a commercial venue... in the whole I totally agree, though announcements of new products are allowed and are usually of value. Soliciting direct business on the other hand is more questionable, and not in keeping with the guidelines of this Forum. That being said, we (Fotoman) have in the past asked for design advice, made product announcements, and most recently made a posting asking for a "show of hands" to assess the viability of producing 5x7 and WP film holders. We are thankful that our posting was not deleted as being "commercial", though to some degree it could surely be viewed as such. Had our posting been deleted, we might not have gathered the information we required to make the decision to go ahead with production.

Lastly, and to me the largest travesty being committed, is the absolute betrayal of Kerry Thallman... a devoted patron, mentor and fountainhead of LF and ULF practice and promotion. After having done all the investigation, groundwork, and promotion, and especially having put his hard earned reputation on the line... to have the folks at Chamonix cast that aside for clearly self serving reasons is a breach of honor and an outright betrayal.

Sadly, this does not come as a surprise to me. I have been living almost every day of the last four years here in China, engaged in the business of manufacturing cameras. During this time I have learned a lot about Chinese mentality... actually, I'm now happily married to one. Of the many things I have learned, one stands out more clearly than any other... Chinese "Face" IS NOT, and should NEVER be confused with the Western sense of "Honor". Until you live here for a while, you can not understand the true meaning of "Face", and what an immoral and destructive concept it truly is. This is not to be interpreted as a condemnation of the Chinese, simply a cultural fact of life that one must understand and be prepare for.

Incidentally, Chinese women are not actively tutored, matriculated into, or held accountable by (or to) the behavioral implications of "Face"... only the males are.