Winging it with the Epson v750

[r.e.]

This weekend, I'm going to try using the fluid mount tray that accompanies this scanner. I'm not going to use Kami or Prazio or Lumina, principally for three reasons: I don't like the cost of these fluids and the need to have them shipped, I don't care whether the scanner fluid evaporates within minutes, and I don't like the idea of dealing with the fumes/ventilation. I've used Kami on a Creo flatbed, and while it works fine, I'd just as soon use something else. So today I went to my local art supply store, photo shop and drug store.

Here's what I got:

5 mil mylar (This came from the art supply store. It is likely to be a nightmare. I figure that this stuff can rival a television screen when it comes to attraction of dust. I may or may not use it. If it helps scanning, there is probably a good case for buying it in small sizes, boxed and interleaved.)

Dust-off (From the photo shop. I figure that I'll use plenty of it over time.)

Disposable cotton gloves (From the drug store, for handling negatives, much cheaper the same thing from the photo store.)

Huggies Baby Wipes (From the drug store, the closest that I could come to soft cloth, which may or may not be used for getting rid of air bubbles when a negative is covered in fluid. A roller (brayer), which I checked out at the art supply store, struck me as possible overkill. But if I decide that I need one, the art store is a block away. Given the scanning fluids that I'm going to try - see below - maybe my fingers will work just fine, kind of like finger painting in grade 1.)

Glycerine (From home, previously purchased from the drug store. I have no idea why drug stores keep this stuff in stock - I use it, with ink, as an artificial horizon for a sextant. In any event, I think that it is a possible alternative to volatile scanning fluids that is completely safe and soluble in water.)

OK, now for the guffaws:

KY Jelly (From the drug store, another possible alternative to scanning fluids, also completely safe and water based.)

KY Liquid (Didn't even know that liquid KY exists. The things one learns.)

ProPhot (From the photo store. These are wipes, imported from France, that may or may not be useful. If they aren't, I can always use them on my computer screens).

Distilled water (From the drug store. For cleaning off the glycerine or KY from the negatives and fluid mount tray, just thought that I'd try it instead of tap water).

To be continued...

[Gene McCluney]

Any water based fluid will cause the emulsion to swell and become milky, particularly color. This will also cause the emulsion to become soft and prone to very easily being scratched while wet. If you go through with this, you will have to rewash your negatives in the darkroom and hang them to dry, just as you do when you process them. KY is a water-based fluid/gel. The fluids that are designed for wet mounting do not cause the emulsion to swell.

[r.e.]

I'm sure that it will be necessary to rinse the negatives after and hang them to dry. I'll be using B&W ones that are disposable. We'll see what happens. Interestingly, it turns out that the principal ingredients in KY are glycerine and water.

Here's a discussion in which someone talks about using glycerine: http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Hr2z

[Ed Richards]

That guy was using glycerine to scan paper, not negatives. You can also glue the emulsion to anything it touches with glycerine. If you do not want to use expensive, volatile fluid, use mineral oil. You will have to clean the negatives afterwards, but it will not affect the emulsion. I would look really carefully at the KY label and pull out my chemistry book - if it has an emulsifier, it could dissolve the emulsion.

[r.e.]

Ed,

If it dissolves the emulsion of a negative that would otherwise go in the trash, who cares? It's just a simple experiment that will take less than half an hour of my time. Either it will work, or it won't, and either way, I'll post what happened. And yes, I'm also planning to try mineral oil. I have some of that too.

If it doesn't work, I'm actually kind of interested in seeing what it does to the emulsion and image. It might be interesting, but then I like John Deakin's photographs.

[Doug Fisher]

Did you see my post to the other thread about how to get Kami fluid relatively cheap? It might be worth your time and your negatives' health.

The brayer/roller is a good thing to have and worth the investment. Most art stores have them but hardware stores often have the same thing for less. I am putting together a page for my website on how to assemble a set of fluid mounting supplies economically. I think a person can easily put together a set of supplies and for $45-60. That is less than the cost of ordering a single bottle of scanning fluid from the online fluid sellers who also sell the expensive kits.

If you want to live on the edge, there is a well know scanning guru who does professional scanning who has used high quality lighter fluid as a mounting fluid. He said he can't tell the difference between that and the results from Kami fluid.

Doug
---
www.BetterScanning.com

[r.e.]

I'm just playing around and having some fun. If the glycerine messes with the negatives, I'm keen to see how. Will be trying this little experiment tonight or tomorrow a.m. and will post the results.

In the last week, I've been using a Mamiya 7 to try out streetshooting - focusing based on estimated distance and composing by just pointing the lens. Do that with an 80mm lens at f8 and you wind up with a lot of bad negatives to play with Now I know why sensible people do this with 35mm cameras and 35mm lenses.

[walter23]

Ed,

If it dissolves the emulsion of a negative that would otherwise go in the trash, who cares? It's just a simple experiment that will take less than half an hour of my time. Either it will work, or it won't, and either way, I'll post what happened. And yes, I'm also planning to try mineral oil. I have some of that too.

I'm trying to understand the value of perfecting a technique that destroys negatives. What are you planning to do? Take multiple copies (one for scanning / destruction and one for archiving)?

[r.e.]

I'm trying to understand the value of perfecting a technique that destroys negatives.

Curiosity?

Lots of people have deliberately damaged negatives, John Deakin being just one example.

In any event, I don't know what is going to happen. Nor does anyone else who has commented in this thread. So I'm going to find out

[r.e.]

First attempt at street photography, first attempt at scanning, first attempt at Photoshop (I think I have a few things to learn about Photoshop).

Should I sacrifice this negative to my experiment, or hang onto it?

Mamiya 7, 80mm lens, Ilford Delta 3200