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Thread: Non-neutral grays with R1800?

  1. #1

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    Non-neutral grays with R1800?

    Yesterday I was playing with my brand, spanking new R1800 when I came across a real problem. I was printing a shot with uniform overcast sky and kept getting a noticable magenta cast at one end where the sky was slightly darker, though still gray. I tinkered with the file up and down and finally, in an act of total desparation, desaturated the sky entirely and STILL got the magenta cast. I rotated the shot so it printed the other way around and that didn't solve the problem either-- that end of the sky where it got darker, drifted towards magenta as well. So what's up with that? What could I be doing wrong? Shouldn't all values with equal RGB values, though different intensities print neutral? If this is a printer "feature," it's going back on Monday.

  2. #2

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    Re: Nin-neutral grays with R1800?

    Because color printers use all the ink colors even when printing B&W photos, a color cast is inevitable. It even looks different under different kinds of light. This is called metamerism, and it's always been a problem esp with dye printers like the 1800.

    Epson's newer R2400 and 3800 pigment printers have a feature called ABW, which allows you to print a neutral print and/or tone it the way you want, if so desired. Custom ink sets from people like Jon Cone can transform a printer like yours to a B&W only printer with supposedly great results.

    I've been printing with an older Canon S9000 dye printer and have been finding the same results as you have. I find that I can alleviate it a little bit by printing a Grayscale image in Photoshop, set for Same As Source in the Print with Preview dialog box. Not perfect but better...

    Another option is to download the QuadTone RIP demo and mess with that until you get the result you'd like...

    There's no easy way, besides buying a new printer...in your case, the R2400 may serve you best.

  3. #3

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    Re: Nin-neutral grays with R1800?

    My solution was an refurb Epson 2200 and monochrome inks. I use the NK7 inks from Inkjetmall. They are seven serial dilutions of black ink so they are always neutral.

    I also use the Quadtone RIP. Even with colured inks I have read that it improves the neutrality of grays. Good luck!

    http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....tegory.1258/.f

  4. #4

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    Re: Nin-neutral grays with R1800?

    Poco,

    I got the impression that you are talking about neutral parts of a colour image. If so, it is a profiling problem. How are you applying your profiles? Which paper and which profile are you using?

    Best,
    Helen

  5. #5
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Re: Non-neutral grays with R1800?

    PV, the R1800 is a pigmented ink printer .... it is the wide versionof the R800. I agree that Quadtone RIP is likely the easiest answer. Back to poco ... is the print you are talking about B&W or color, that isn't clear from your post and all the answers so far, except Helen's (including my comments above) assume B&W.

    If we are talking B&W another solutionis to use quadtone or duotone rinting whcih you can access from within PS (see Ken Lee's quadtones on his web page for example). If we are talking color then you may need to work more with your color mixing ... why not post a pjeg here of the print in question ... would be very helpful.

  6. #6

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    Re: Non-neutral grays with R1800?

    If you are trying to print B&W with the R1800 and the original Epson inks then you will struggle to get a totally neutral print due to the lack of grey's available in that printer. Instead of adding a "light black" as they did for the 2200 Epson tried to enhance the colour gamut by adding the red and blue inks. I suspect that the best solution available without changing inks is to use the Quadtone RIP (QTR) as suggested above. You will find some specific profiles for the R1800 on the QTR Yahoo forum: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/QuadtoneRIP/ in ther files area.

    If having tried this you are still finding that greys aren't neutral then I can recommend the Cone Piezography NK7 inks in this printer.

    David Whistance

  7. #7

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    Re: Non-neutral grays with R1800?

    Sorry, I was indeed talking about printing a color image. All the profile stuff still has me confused (slowly learning) but the printer profile is the same as the input file, Adobe RGB, and using the canned profile that came with the printer gets me results which are very close to accurate, so I don't think I'm using the wrong settings. Except for this neutral gray issue, I'm satisfied with the results.

    Thanks...

  8. #8

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    Re: Non-neutral grays with R1800?

    if you are using profile, and you are printing from photoshop, make shure that :
    you choose the printer profile "R1800+paper type"
    you select : let photoshop control the color
    and, in the epson driver : color : no calibration

  9. #9

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    Re: Non-neutral grays with R1800?

    "Sorry, I was indeed talking about printing a color image."

    That's what it sounded like to me - there are three good clues in your original post.

    If you have followed the procedure that archivue describes* and still have the problem, would you like me to make you a custom profile to see if that's any better, or would you like me to print your image on my R800 to compare? Which paper and which printer profile are you using now? What image software are you printing from? The more you tell us about what you are doing, the easier it is to help.

    * Just to clarify "in the epson driver : color : no calibration": In the Epson driver under Color Management select the ICM button, then under ICC/ICM Profile select the Off (No Color Adjustment) button.

    Best,
    Helen

  10. #10

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    Re: Non-neutral grays with R1800?

    Helen,

    Your generosity, knowledge, and unfailing good humor bowl me over time everytime I see your contributions here or on APUG. You're a gem. But before I put you out further, let me give as much info as possible to see if you or anyone else can spot where I'm screwing up:

    I'm printing out of photoshop (though an ancient version), and when I click on File/Print/setup, I have Adobe RGB and Perceptual selected as Print Space Profile and Intent, and under Properties, I have Premium Glossy paper selected (what I'm using) and under Color Management, have ICM selected. Under ICM Mode, I have Driver ICM (basic) selected (I've tried all the other ICM options and they're no better and if I click on No Color Mangement, the colors really go batty).

    The setup noted above gets me very close to proper prints except that in general it yields ever so slightly exagerated subtle color shifts and, on the other hand, pretty notable muting of strong colors. It's like if the A and B curves where steepend in the middle of a LAB curve and the extremes flattened. I could learn to compensate for that in file prep, but the fact that a totally desaturated sky results in subtle hue shifts makes me think there's something seriously off with either my setup or printer.

    Thanks...

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