vapor with K3 inks/Museo Silver Rag

[Michael Bowes]

Dear LF folks,

I've been running into a somewhat unusual problem with my printing. I discovered it by accident.

I print using K3 Ultrachrome inks (Epson 4800/9800) and have printed on Museo Silver Rag paper. I've tried "drying" my prints up to 3 days with two paper exchanges (weighted down with the blotting paper on top) as suggested by Epson to get rid of gas ghosting. I don't seem to have encountered any gas ghosting problems.

However, a while ago, one of my matted/framed prints with acrylic glazing was exposed to direct sunlight for a few minutes (around 5-10 minutes on a bright day). This caused vapor to start to form on inside of the acrylic. As I left the print in the sun longer, more vapor accumulated. Eventually, there was enough to actually form a droplet that ran down the inside of the acrylic. Taking the framed print out of the sun for, say, 20 minutes, made all the vapor go away leaving no trace on the acrylic. The vapor seemed to form mainly above the lighter areas on the print, but it's hard to tell if that was really a hard and fast rule.

Has any one else run into a problem like this, and have you heard of a solution? I don't think this is the dreaded gas ghosting because that reportedly leaves a "film" on the glazing that has to be cleaned off. I think this is water vapor or some other kind of non-marking liquid outgassing from either the paper or the inks.

Thanks!
Michael

[Bruce Watson]

It's called out-gassing. It's glycols and glycerins -- the part of the ink carrier that isn't water.

Regardless of what Epson says, only heat and air movement will drive them out of the print. The cure is a simple hand-held hair dryer.

This problem has been discussed to death numerous times. For more information, search the archives here:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/D...guid=276055793
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E...guid=276055793

[Ed Richards]

Given that Silver Rag looks like shirt cardboard, it could also be water if the prints were made or stored in a moist enviroment. Cook them in the sun and you could boil some out. I am with Bruce - pressing prints between paper does not seem as useful as warm, moving air.

[Steven Barall]

I wouldn't leave them out in the sun even for a moment due to the ultraviolet. Try the hair drier.

[Michael Bowes]

Thanks so much for the replies and links!!

I've seen the "normal" outgassing which leaves a filmy residue on the glazing, but this surprised me because it looked more like normal water condensation. I think maybe the fact that the sunlight heats up the print so much causes an accelerated outgassing or frees up any moisture in the paper (esp. as I seemed to notice more moisture on the glazing above the white areas of the print, not the dark areas).

I'll try the hairdryer. Gee, what a pain. I wonder if a mild (and I mean real mild, like 100 degrees) oven might work. I'd be worried that anything more severe than a light hairdryer treatment or a low-temp oven might have some effect on the archival nature of the print. In any case, putting the framed print in the sun may appear to be a useful way of determining whether one's process removes the likelihood of outgassing or moisture transfer in the future, as it appears to exacerbate the problem and gives results very quickly.

Regards,
Michael

[Ed Richards]

What is your climate - if you are in the desert, just put them in the shade on the porch. If you are in Portland OR, or Baton Rouge, crank up the air conditioner to suck the moisture out of the room for a while, then use the hair dryer. You could also use a sealed container with some dessicant - even a big zip lock bag.

[Jim Jones]

I've also had this problem when exhibiting new and old traditional black and white prints in outdoor shows. Weather seemed to be a major factor.

[Michael Bowes]

Ed,

I live in the Eastern Sierra at 7900 ft elevation. It's very very dry here (it typically is about 20% humidity or less in winter), so I was rather surprised by the amount of liquid condensation that formed.

Maybe I can make matters better by leaving my roll of MSR out to dry for a few weeks before using. When I did my last test print a few days ago, it was from a new roll of MSR. Museo wraps their rolls in unsealed plastic bags, but tucks the ends of the plastic wrapping into the center spool of the roll. This might seal the bag pretty well, and perhaps the roll doesn't dry out. Maybe it's humid where Crane makes the paper (they're in Maryland and this particular roll was probably made last summer/fall).

Suggestions I've seen on other threads or from the replies I've gotten are:
1) Use a hair dryer on the prints. This probably works, but could take forever when replenishing one's inventory, preparing for a show, etc. Especially on large prints.
2) Sandwiching the prints with blotting paper for a couple days. This doesn't work. I know because that's exactly what I did with my latest test print. Of course, maybe my blotting paper (I used Kraft paper) wasn't absorbent enough. I'm going to try some fancy expensive archival tissue paper as well and see if that's any better.
3) Hanging up the prints for a couple weeks. Well, that takes a lot of space and time. It'd probably work, but I'm not sure where I could do that.

One of the things I need to figure out is whether the vapor I've seen is due to outgassing of the ink, or if it's from water vapor in the paper. If it's the latter, I may well be able to eradicate the problem by pre-drying the rolls of MSR. That'd be a lot easier than dealing with the ink. More experiments are necessary...

Thanks,
-Michael

[Ed Richards]

You can stack prints on racks like we did when we dried silver prints. Where you are, things should dry fast, as long as they get air flow - no blotting paper. Are you suse the moisture is coming from the print and not the other framing materials?

[Michael Bowes]

Ed,

I'm pretty sure the moisture is coming from the print. It forms on the glazing next to various parts of the print, with some variation in the amount of moisture that seems to be related to the amount of white paper showing. The framing materials are all archival rag board and moisture doesn't form opposite the outer or inner mats.

-Michael