Online print lab and marketing: interested ?

[Jack Flesher]

This sounds very similar to what "American Frame" has at their website.

I must have the wrong site... I Googled "American Frame" and got framing services. Do they offer turn-key website with storefront? Costs? A link???

[Greg Lockrey]

http://www.americanframe.com/ You have to get into "the Art Gallery". They offer a gamut of services along with the framing.

[Ed K.]

You know, A&I was trying to go down about the same plan as you mention for a few years. Apparently, the new owners found a more home-user type approach worth trying for a while - a sort of online print kiosk on the low end. With all the volume they do, and good prices at that, one would think they could afford to support the high-end online more. There must be a reason. They seem to have trouble because they don't have the web part right last I checked. And Westcoast touts a custom approach to online work too, complete with their featured printmakers.

Marketing sounds very interesting, but isn't that a different business altogether? For publication sales, it's usually electronic, no? But you'll be part print house. Selling publication / stock is a bit different animal than fine art prints isn't it?

Two cents - try to specialize a little and pick one direction more. At least then you can size up your competition better and position yourself. What was said about the overwhelming number of photogs and their own opinions of their work makes sense. Can your marketing, when diluted by the lab relations and headaches, still better serve a larger volume than other stock houses and reps?

Another issue is that so many photographers have had to branch out into becoming mini-marketing firms with direct-to-client relationships and one-stop shops. Others have side scanning and printing businesses and/or rent their studios out. And still more do "web design" and "e-commerce". It's a jungle out there, and everyone is like water filling in the nooks. You'll have to really focus your pitch and have the means for some real follow through.

I'm not saying that you can't build a better mouse trap, however there are some mighty big, expensive mousetraps out there that are struggling to compete. I hope that your effort works out - if it does, I'll be checking you out! You do sound determined - so really, best of luck and success!

[Frank Petronio]

Not to splash cold water, but my friend Walter has tried this:

http://www.nancyscans.net/photoisart...s/MainPage.asp

http://www.nancyscans.net/index.html

And he says he hasn't sold much... like a goosegg.

[Greg Lockrey]

As many of you already may know, my business is producing fine art reproductions for many artists and illustrators and the display industry. I get a lot of newbies that think they will take the art world by storm. Generally it takes them a couple of years to realize that it's tougher than they thought. I churn about six newbies a year. Several of my clients have been in the business for 20-30 years working in design departments for the likes of Owens Corning, Owens Illinois and General Motors. Some have their own websites ebay stores and all sell their wares at art shows. To my knowledge none are making money off the net. Some are breaking even at ebay, but barely. Only those who do the shows in person or go door to door to dealers are making a living. It's difficult to sell your art when a customer sees it in person, next to impossible when your looking at it on a 15" screen. My 2c.

Here are examples of my more successful clients:

http://www.goettner.com/bio.htm

http://www.stevekinseyministries.com/

http://calandrastudio.com/

They all do well, but not on the net.

[bob carnie]

Like Greg
I am in the custom printing business as well, we have a site and do recieve work from all points.
We would not consider lowering our prices as we consider them fair for our workflow methods and commitment to satisfying our clients needs.
Lunchbag let down is the most common element of long distance printing. I prefer knowing who my client is , getting to know their requirements and testing back and forth with them over a period of time.

Jack I would consider a simple fact that is just around the corner before you make any decision .

Wallmart, Loblaws*grocery store* Costco , every small mini lab *worldwide* have on site a Fuji Frontier. The print size is up to 12x18 and the prices are determined by the pound and not by the print size.
All the major manufacturers are/have developed a big boy version of these machines. Durst Theta for example. 30inch to 50 inch roll by whatever length , this machine is front workingspace,LED exposing unit, processor, and print trimming unit in one single package that is not much larger than the Fuji Fronteir platforms.
It is only a matter of time*weeks - year* before you start seeing them pop into the market place in suprising locations.
They will also consider the price per pound attitude and you will be able to get your 30x40s for very low prices.* I would suggest much lower than what you may be considering*
This is already happening here in Toronto where competing labs with chromras and lightjets are offering great reductions for unmanaged files where you pay a per foot price. You are responsible for managing your files and in a perfect world it makes total sense . I have seen the results of this workflow of extremely compentant photostudios, and the work is really not to bad, a few points off in colour and density but *hey who cares about that.*
We have a lambda onsite and have decided not to go this route for clients finished prints. We will do this only for proofing purposes on shows we are commisioned to print.
I think you have to look to the local grocery store to analyse your competition for a low price internet printing service.
As Greg points out that the percetage of work done this way is small compared to client to printer relationships.
Face to Face discussion with clients is always the best route for custom work.

Another small factor as I am sure Greg will attest to. Our whole client base are in very different skill levels of the digital workflow capabilities. Some are not aware how to turn on the computer to those who do not need a printer for any manipulations.*dodge/burn/contrast/colourbalance/colouraccention.
In all cases I am needed at some point. whether it is to take a raw file and completely manage it to final print or just look at the test print and make a small tweek if needed.
Once you start down this printing for others game you will find this factor quite challanging.
I too agree that getting into custom printing for others is extremely rewarding, but I am not sure about a web based fufillment plan.

Jack, I am speaking from the viewpoint of being in the custom printing business already. Making prints that satisfy yourself (and I know your standards are very high) is a whole different ballgame when you have to deal with a client's idea of what they think they are looking for. When doing custom printing, I find that my clients like to be part of the process until they are comfortable that I get their view. You are going to look at a lot of images that need fixing, but it's theirs. Now, admittedly I have a cheap website that has links to send full size files to me to be printed and after five years plus on the web, I can count on one hand the number of clients that bothered to use the feature. Large files take a long time to send. Another issue is what they see on their monitor isn't necessarily going to match yours....that alone is a problem. Getting into custom printing is very rewarding and you get to meet a lot of neat people, but I wouldn't quit your day job if the plan is web based. JMHO

[QT Luong]

Not to splash cold water, but my friend Walter has tried this:

http://www.nancyscans.net/photoisart...s/MainPage.asp

http://www.nancyscans.net/index.html

And he says he hasn't sold much... like a goosegg.

The problem with all those offerings is that the company makes money by charging the photographer a fee upfront, regardless of whether prints are sold or not. The incentive to market the photographers effectively (an expensive proposition) is quite thin, to say the least.