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Thread: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

  1. #21

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    archivue,

    If I understand, what you are saying is that what one acheives, by transfering from 171mm to 141mm, is the convenience of not having to change bellows, assuming that one is using lenses that require that bellows/rail range and that one would need to change bellows duirng a shoot, at a cost of about $1500 plus. Also, could I ask, why does it make sense to sell an entire Arca-Swiss F-Line camera to make this transition, especially if it is true, as someone said earlier in this thread, that a used F-Line is worth less than $1200?

    If I misunderstand, I'd love to know what I don't get about this.

  2. #22

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Well that it is just the thing about these Arcas, Ebonys, Linhofs isn't it? You can easily spend more than $3000 on one of their beautiful, superbly designed and crafted photographic instruments.

    Or you can spend a fraction of that and get an almost as nice -- and 100% as capable -- Sinar or older model of any of the top brands. Remember the reality check that better photographers than any of us have made better photos than any of us, using cheap, dodgey, primative equipment.

    You don't buy $3000 4x5 large format cameras because you absolutely need their feature set. Admit it -- you buy them because they are really nice things to have.

  3. #23

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    You don't buy $3000 4x5 large format cameras because you absolutely need their feature set. Admit it -- you buy them because they are really nice things to have.
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  4. #24

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Frank,

    Actually, I bought the Discovery because it was capable and light. I have taken it all over the world, and I don't think that I could have done the same with a Sinar. And believe me, I am acutely aware of the fact that the decision to go with Arca-Swiss pretty much ruled out, in a way that a Sinar would not, the ability to rent the occasional lens when I needed something different short-term.

    For me, the potential downside to the Discovery was the 30cm rail. But I use two lenses with the Discovery (150mm and 240mm), one lens with my Mamiya rangefinder (80mm) and two lenses with my Nikon digital (35mm and 85mm). So it has not been, in my case, a hardship. This goes back to when I was a kid, when my father taught me about photography with an ancient (1950s) fixed lens Yashica Twin Lens Reflex And I am ever-mindful of the fact that Cartier Bresson, if I understand correctly, used a 50mm lens for his entire career. Indeed, when I was thinking about large format, I came across a post on this very site in which someone quoted somebody or other to the effect that if you can't do good photography with a 150mm lens (for 4x5) there is something the matter. That post has stuck with me.

    That said, I had weak knees tonight and bought one of the Nikkor 120mm Macro lenses that B&H is selling for $300. Not sure what I am going to do with it, or whether it is true that large format Macro lenses really do give better results at 1:1 and larger magnifications, but I guess I'm going to find out.

    Fundamentally, I agree, if I have not misinterpreted you, with the gist of what you are saying. Let me add, I have read that you have a weakness for Leicas. I don't know much about those cameras, but I have had a Mamiya rangefinder for the last year, and I must say that it has become my favourite camera. I just like the way that a rangefinder handles and focuses. Not rational, but there you have it. My current project is to become competent at using it without using the viewfinder to focus, just estimating distances and using the engraving on the barrel. As much as I enjoy the rather deliberate process of large format, I'm also interested in the idea "f22 and be there". And certainly, the project that I just finished, a presentation for a book, on which I have a lot riding, was the better for using all three cameras, each of which resulted in different kinds of images.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by r.e.; 27-Jan-2007 at 23:39.

  5. #25

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Also, could I ask, why does it make sense to sell an entire Arca-Swiss F-Line camera to make this transition, especially if it is true, as someone said earlier in this thread, that a used F-Line is worth less than $1200?
    my 4x5 wasn't a field version, so both standards were In 171 ! I sold it, and was able to buy the conversion set for my 6x9... so when travelling with my "new 4x5", the camera is smaller, and i don't have to carry several bellows, and using the 6x9 or the 4x5, all my lens are mounted on 110 lensboards !
    sorry for my poor french-english !

  6. #26

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    If may add my 0,02 euro to this discussion.
    The answer to the question : "Does it make sense or not to change from a 171 mm Arca Swiss system to the new 141 mm system ?" might not be the same in different parts of the world.

    For example I've never seen in Northern America washing machines like we have in Europe, 40 cm wide (15"-3/4). Probably under the size of one cubic metre (35 cubic feet) no washing machine would ever find a customer on the other side of the Atlantic (seen from the Arca Swiss side).
    I must confess that I've mostly toured the West, where there is a lot of available space ;-) so this might be a reason why I never saw any 40 cm wide washing machine there ;-)

    Those who know the average surface in a Tokyo appartment may understand the issue as well.

    -----------

    Personnaly as an amateur I entered the Arca Swiss system with a second-hand 6x9 F-classic bought for significantly less than a new Discovery ; I was never attracted by the 171 line of 4"x5" models as my fist view camera.
    But our washing machine is a 40 cm model. This might explain the choice ;-)

    Eventually after 6 years I succumbed to the 110-141 extension kit, but there, I agree with Frank P. :
    it is such a really nice thing to have as an arcaphile LF-er !

  7. #27

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    as a matter of fact, in our washing machine, we cannot clean the 171 bellow !
    Considering the space of flat in tokyo, when you are a fashion victim, and have some money to spent, you can't buy a new type of stuff... but you can update your very hold (1 year old) Ipod, to buy the new one...

  8. #28

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    the big advantage of the 141 Field is the bellow : from 47 to 360(at infinity) with just one bellow and full movements with wide angles !
    i used to have a 171x171, and a 6x9... i sold the complete 171 in order to buy the 141 to 110 conversion kit, and i'm very happy with it !
    That's very interesting. I wasn't aware that was possible on the 141mm. By way of comment, I purchased the leather compendium bellows, and I'm able to use it up to 210mm. The majority of my shooting is under this focal length, so I get about 75% of the same benefit. My second bellows is the 700mm, which works fine for 250mm on up. It's a bit bulky, though.

    Vanity being exactly the point, the leather bellows makes the camera look really neat, too.

  9. #29
    Eric Biggerstaff
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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Did Arca-Swiss also discontinue the F-Line Field camera? I was looking at one and BH shows it as discontinued. I am sure I am WAY out of the loop on this.
    Eric Biggerstaff

    www.ericbiggerstaff.com

  10. #30

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Wow, I am glad I got my Discovery when I did. I thought it was one of the best bargins around. I got access into the Arca line for half of other nodels. It still can take the other accessories too to upgrade to meet my needs. For me the things that it was missing were inconsequential to use.

    Now with a couple of extra accessories, I feel fully capable and content with a camera.

    Having seen the 141mm setup I am not convinced they are any better than the 171. Since I only have a 30cm rail, I do not need a bellows any longer than the wide angle one-since it cover the full 30cm. The size difference is not that great considering the bellows sticks out beyond the 141 frame.

    So if you are interested in the modular aspect of the Arca a Discovery (used or new) is a great way to get into it.

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