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Thread: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

  1. #11

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    archivue,

    It has been 12-18 months since I have looked at used prices for Arca-Swiss cameras. When I last looked, vallue was holding pretty well. If you are saying that a second-hand F-Line 171mm in excellent condition can now be bought for close to the price of a new Discovery, what it tells me is that the bottom has fallen out of the large format market. Either that or buyers are convinced that the 141mm cameras are a big improvement over the 171mm cameras and that the latter are obsolete. As I say, I have not been following pricing.

  2. #12

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Last time I checked Ebay there was a 171 Classic sold under 1200, I guess that is about the price of a Discovery.
    I really like Arca F-line camera, but I can not afford it, maybe until I graduate and get a job, but by that time, I don't think I will have as much time to shoot photos as now.

    With the new 141 standard, I guess there is not much difference between F-classic and F-classic"field". The regular 141 classic should be more popular.

  3. #13

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    It may be getting a little tight for Arca. We know what's been happening to large format. Hopefully, they have a winner in their 6x9, since one can use a digital back with it. Would we be surprised if Arca went under? Very sad, yes. Under? Probably not.

    Why build a camera that competes at much lower cost with your flagship product? This is one of the few decisions they've made that makes sense. No offense to anyone, but that Misura is rather a strange bird.

    I think it would have made more sense to skip that camera, come out with super-light similar to the 141mm camera designed for field use, and retain the 171mm version as their studio camera. There are advantages to having a bellows that isn't packed so tightly around the 4x5 frame. It would have made for less tooling, too.

    $0.02. KerChing.

  4. #14

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    I am only an equipment fondeler (per the Leica forum) but my take is that unless you are a backpacker, the differences between the 171 and 141 in actual pack size and weight are hard to justify cost-wise. The most significant difference is packing lenses onto smaller lensboards -- and that is easily remedied with an 171 Arca to Technika adapter.

    Kerry T has the right idea, assemble a hybrid suited to your needs. The only issue is you have to haunt eBay and jump on every auction because this stuff is few and far between.

  5. #15

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Quote Originally Posted by neil poulsen View Post
    It may be getting a little tight for Arca. We know what's been happening to large format. Hopefully, they have a winner in their 6x9, since one can use a digital back with it. Would we be surprised if Arca went under? Very sad, yes. Under? Probably not.

    Why build a camera that competes at much lower cost with your flagship product? This is one of the few decisions they've made that makes sense. No offense to anyone, but that Misura is rather a strange bird.

    I think it would have made more sense to skip that camera, come out with super-light similar to the 141mm camera designed for field use, and retain the 171mm version as their studio camera. There are advantages to having a bellows that isn't packed so tightly around the 4x5 frame. It would have made for less tooling, too.

    $0.02. KerChing.
    Arca is doing well. The fact that 6x9 is getting stronger because of digital backs is good for Arca too. See also their new hand holdable 4x5 and 6x9 cameras - they know where to go. The fact that big LF manufacturers are leaving is good news for the smaller ones. The secretiveness of AS is a part of their Swiss mentality and can be used as a selling point too, ironically.

  6. #16

    Cool Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    If you look at Alpa and Leica and their business practices, they all follow the same logic that Mercedes did for so many years.

    It is a calculated decision to build and sell really good stuff and to hell with the price.
    Of course this puts them in a niche.


    Can't fault them for that. I have a 171 and like it.

  7. #17

    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
    When you figure out Arca's management decision-making logic, let me know. You shouldn't have any trouble figuring out the female gender or metaphysics, much less where the Holy Grail is.
    Easy Frank...they're European - 'nuff said.
    As far as the other three: Females are complicated beyond beyond all comprehension so we shouldn't even try to figure them out.
    Metaphysics simply cannot exist as everything in the universe, known or otherwise, is governed by the laws of physics - even if we haven't discovered them yet, therefore, the concept that there is something beyond or outside the world of physics that interacts with matter as if it were real is a complete contradiction and cannot exist. If there is any measurable action or reaction ascribed to a so called metaphysical force it must belong to the realm of physics...we just don't know it yet. (I do not include religion in this argument for obvious reasons)
    Finally everyone in the world knows that the Holy Grail lies under the floor of Rosslyn Chapel near Edinburgh (no matter what it actually is it is definately there) My reasoning is based on the fact that I too reside near Edinburgh and I can really feel the force from it. Based on my own argument that even though this could be construed as a metaphysical reaction that means, as any perceived metaphysical reaction must in reality obey the laws of physics and therefore be real it must be there...see.
    I correct my comment about the female gender....they are metaphysical.

    Martin

  8. #18
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    Arca-Swiss is a nice system, but how can a new $1200 Discovery compete with a used $250 Sinar F or F1 and/or $500 4x5" Sinar P ? At these prices a beginner interested in a monorail might as well buy the Sinar as a starter camera, invest in good lenses, and then if they decide that a new Arca-Swiss F or M line better suits their working methods, then just sell the Sinar and buy the new Arca.

  9. #19

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    My dealer said that to the best of his recollection, the price for a Discovery just before it was discontinued was about $1500. If that is correct, and if it is true that one can buy an F-Line off E-bay for under $1200 (which was certainly not the case 18 months ago), I can see why the Discovery would no longer be offered. For that matter, if a used F-line costs under $1200, one has got to wonder what the market is for a new camera at $3000.

    It's also possible that the Discovery was just too capable for the price and that a lot of the owners are not buying additional components. I just finished using mine, along with a Mamiya 6x7 rangefinder and a Nikon digital, to do a presentation for a book. Given the focal lengths that I use, and the subject matter, it was very much up to the task.

    Re Mr. Petronio's comment: "I am only an equipment fondeler (per the Leica forum) but my take is that unless you are a backpacker, the differences between the 171 and 141 in actual pack size and weight are hard to justify cost-wise." Ironically, one of the main reasons that I, and probably a fair number of people, bought a Discovery is that I wanted to be able to travel with the camera and carry it in a backpack. Its suitability for that was one of its selling points.

    I didn't know that Arca-Swiss is producing a handholdable 4x5. Will have to check it out.

  10. #20

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    Re: Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

    the big advantage of the 141 Field is the bellow : from 47 to 360(at infinity) with just one bellow and full movements with wide angles !
    i used to have a 171x171, and a 6x9... i sold the complete 171 in order to buy the 141 to 110 conversion kit, and i'm very happy with it !

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