Camera Recommendations for a newbie?

[iskim]

Hi I'm a guy planning to go into LF. After shooting 35mm for few years and shooting DSLR for a couple. I just got sick of the price of my digital equipment falling at a dramatic rate and realized I never enjoyed shooting anything dynamic. I've almost decided on accessories and scanners etc. and now it's the time to decide which camera I would use.

I mostly shoot lansdscapes and architecture (or cityscapes), mostly exterior and sometimes, interior. I'm 20 years old and I don't have a car so I don't get to travel very often for nature photography unless I really mean it. Fortunately I live in the downtown area of the city so I have somewhat easy access for shooting nice views of city (my main interest).

Since I'll be selling off most of digital equipments, I started looking at 4x5 cameras from the middle price range and the cameras that got my interest are:

1. Ebony SV45TE - First of all, its beatiful looks got my attention, and I "hope" it will be enough to suit my needs. Quite a pricey camera for my age, and is also at the limit of what I can afford.

2. Ebony 45S - Says it's not foldable but as some advantages on using wide angles and stuff over SV45TE... so shall I dominate this model for my use? For 35mm, I mostly shot from superwide to standard, and I prefer to use wide angle lenses in 4x5 too.

3. light monorail cameras - I haven't done enough research on this part but I think I'll be able to handle it if it's under 10lbs. I just found Horseman LE on eBay and this also looks like a reasonable choice. (is it?)

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Horseman-LE-4x5-L...QQcmdZViewItem

All comments are welcome... Thanks for viewing!

[Ken Lee]

Determine the extremes of lens length that you will need. This will tell you how much bellows draw you need. Don't forget close-ups. For example, a 150mm lens needs 300mm bellows draw to reach 1:1. On 4x5, a 450mm lens isn't really long (It's roughly equivalent to a 150mm lens in 35mm terms). If you shoot mostly wide, see if you need a bag bellows to accomodate your typical lengths. If so, does the camera offer interchangeable bellows ?

Determine how heavy or light a camera you can tolerate - when weighed with the rest of your equipment.

Determine how big or small you need: Must it fold into a backpack, etc. ?

Determine how fast you need to set up/knock down the camera.

Determine how much movement you need, front and rear.

Determine if you need protection against extremes of weather: high humidity, arctic temperatures. This will tell you about wood/metal/composite.

If you have large hands/short arms etc., determine if the camera's controls are easy to operate, especially from under the dark cloth, when wearing gloves, etc.

If you plan to expand on the camera later, consider if the camera is of a "modular" design. Determine if you care.

There are probably a few other considerations, but that should get you started.

[Ron Marshall]

I have a 3 pound Toho (reviewed in the link below). For me it is the perfect travel or backpack camera; not only is it light but it breaks down into two easily packed units.

It can be used with all of my lenses from 75 to 450mm. It is a monorail so it has full movements.

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

[iskim]

I'm thinking of 58SA XL my widest lens and anything under 10lbs I can tolerate since I'll be carrying lighter lenses compared to what I was using in 35mm and will change my tripod to a CF one.
It'll be nice if it fits in a backback but it's not a must. I usally carry big shoulder bags or a rucksack. About the movements, I'm not really sure. This would be my first purchase and I have nowhere to try it before I purchase, so this would be my main concern. I don't think protection against extremes of weather will be necessary.
I apologize for the lack of details in my post.. would this comment help?

[Frank Petronio]

Even the cheapest Ebony is hardly in the middle price range. They are fine cameras but many expert professionals use far less expensive equipment and get results at least as good as anyone using an Ebony. So you might want to back up, take a deep breath and do a little more homework -- and you can save lots of $$$ and headache.

Just a little fatherly advice: get a $700 Toyo A (or whatever) and a 150mm Rodenstock Sironar-N (or whatever) -- or better yet, purchase a $1000 outfit from somebody, complete with film holders and stuff -- and you'll have a set-up capable of doing absolutely state-of-the-art images. After you understand how to use this gear, then you'll be better equipped to spend more money on exactly what suits you best.

For that matter you can get a Crown Graphic outfit for $300 and learn with that.

You wouldn't learn how to drive a stick shift with a $50,000 sports coupe would you? Start with a Chevy.

[photographs42]

You’re really at a disadvantage by not being able to handle different models and types of cameras before purchase.

Given that you won’t have a car, I would recommend something that will fit in a backpack. You are also going to need film holders, light meter, an additional lens or two and a few other accessories. Except for the tripod, everything should fit in a backpack if you are going any distance with it on foot. For this and other reasons, I would rule out the monorails. I know people use them but I think you will be much happier with a more compact and lighter folding field camera similar to the wooden Wista’s and there are many to choose from.

I would also suggest that you not try to buy the perfect camera the first time out. With no experience in LF you chances are slim to none of picking the perfect one. So go for a used one that doesn’t stress your budget and when you have the experience to know what features to look for you can make a better choice on your next one. Those of us on this forum can advise you till doomsday but we are all saddled by our own ways and methods and can only give you general advice that has any meaning.
Jerome

PS: Remember this. When the shutter opens, there is nothing between the subject and the film except the glass, and any decent LF lens will perform to most people’s expectations.

[Aaron van de Sande]

I would recommend the monorail for what you want to do. I think it is pretty rare that people stick with the first LF camera they buy, so I would just go with whatever looks reasonable. Even if you do get another camera most people stick with a monorail for architecture.

Most of the monorails offer pretty much the same things except for the very cheapest (and basic) cambos, I am sure that a horseman will be great.

[Anupam]

Just got a shen-hao after going thru a few models and I am liking it. I wouldn't start of with an Ebony - maybe after you know exactly what you want.

-A

[Ash]

I'm an absolute newbie to Large Format as well, but I thought maybe my first experiences may help a little.

First of all I used a 10x8 studio camera for about a day. It's my mother's, it's heavy, and it's difficult to use. What I learned - I'm not likely to take it out of the house....ever. In this respect anything that will be taken from a studio definitely does need to be compact and easy to use or quick to unpack/pack.

I got an excellent deal on a near-complete half-plate ground camera (camera was complete with a few plate holders, but without lens. Of course half plate is difficult to come by, so I'd recommend not going by my route unless you want some DIY or added cost on buying a 4x5 back to fit). What I learnt - movements are great to have 'in case'. I played around with the amount of tilt/shift/rise all from an archaic field camera that has been abandoned for years, and 'limited' is far from accurate.

Third, my Cambo, bought from Jim Galli on here. Monorail, but not the lightest. He sold it to me with some film holders and dark cloth. I'm not sure I'd hike with it, but it's very usable, and I wouldn't worry about taking it out to use in the field if I had a strong enough tripod, and direct access to the site .

So that's where hands-on experience counts. You need to feel the cameras and see what you prefer, and whether you'll need to spend a few hundred on a tripod that's strong enough to support the camera or not!
I'm thinking you'll want movements on the camera for your type of shooting, so you COULD go down the field camera route, making it a light and compact choice (though kinda vintage in appearance) once fitted with a standard 4x5/5x7 back... or as previously suggested, wait for someone to sell a kit with EVERYTHING included.

It's down to patience as well, and if you like to get your hands dirty and modify things then I'd recommend the cheaper but more drawn out route of getting an older field camera cheap and modifying for your purpose. Failing that pay the extra cost for some of the really nice modern folding cameras that are compact, but have all the movements.

Unless you find something really light, I'd steer clear of some of the bulkier monorails. I'm sure others are going to disagree with me, and I'm hardly the most educated here, but from my newbie standpoint with experience of only 3 cameras, I'd choose a field camera with an array of movements over a monorail if I need to move the camera around often.

So go for the cheapest option you can - field camera with loads of movements, or light monorail

[steve simmons]

Before buying a camera I suggest some reading

Getting Started in Large Format

in the FreeArticles in the View Camera web site

www.viewcamera.com

In fact, there are several articles in that section that may be qute helpful

Also, one of these books
Using the View Camera that I wrote
User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone
Large Format nature Photography by Jack Dykinga

check your local library

steve simmons