Let's start a petition for Pan-F in 4x5!

[Lenny Eiger]

Why would you want Pan F in larger formats? Across, Delta 100 and Tmax-100 all have smaller grain and higher resolution.
Sandy King

They only have smaller grain where it's sharp. If you look at areas of sky, the grain is very large. These films are made with silver chloride vs silver bromide and it isn't anywhere as sensitive as traditional film. They have half the number of tones available to them. It's like playing a piano with 88 keys but in the back there are only 44 strings to strike.

If you make prints with only 44 tones it doesn't matter - as in fairly contrasty. But if you don't they are horrible. Those of us who like a full, rich tonal range find them quite lacking.

Lenny

[Ted Harris]

What about efke/ADOX 25? I've used it for years in rolls and sheet and quire like it?

[sanking]

They only have smaller grain where it's sharp. If you look at areas of sky, the grain is very large. These films are made with silver chloride vs silver bromide and it isn't anywhere as sensitive as traditional film. They have half the number of tones available to them. It's like playing a piano with 88 keys but in the back there are only 44 strings to strike.

If you make prints with only 44 tones it doesn't matter - as in fairly contrasty. But if you don't they are horrible. Those of us who like a full, rich tonal range find them quite lacking.

Lenny

That may be your opinion, but some of the best traditional work I have ever seen was done with Tmax-100 and roll film.

I don't personally have any need for a slow ASA sheet film, but if one is looking for optimum quality in 4X5 or 5X7 with large enlargment Tmax-100 is the path to success in my opinion.

Of course, this assumes that one takes the time to learn how to expose and develop the film to optimize results. T-grain films do not have as much latitude in exposure and development as traditional films.

Sandy

[Lenny Eiger]

That may be your opinion, but some of the best traditional work I have ever seen was done with Tmax-100 and roll film.
I don't personally have any need for a slow ASA sheet film, but if one is looking for optimum quality in 4X5 or 5X7 with large enlargment Tmax-100 is the path to success in my opinion.
Of course, this assumes that one takes the time to learn how to expose and develop the film to optimize results. T-grain films do not have as much latitude in exposure and development as traditional films.
Sandy

I tried a lot of developers, probably 30 or so, even invented one of my own to try and get the most out of TGrained films. (I did figure out what the agent was that made TMax and others develop out.) I know a lot about development, different developers and how they interact with silver grains. I've been photographing for more than 40 years and have taught the zone system to a ton of people so I think I know how to expose by now.

It is my opinion, but in my opinion, these films really stink. That said, it has a lot to do with what one is after. I want a full tonal range, as I have said. If you print contrasty like good 'ol Ansel, it doesn't matter what film you use. However, if you want to print like a platinum printer the TGrained films will fail you. Every time.

I scan my images on a drum scanner and print with custom mixed six dilution b&w inks. This medium has far more range than a silver print, and even a bit longer range than a platinum print. The more tones you get in your image, the more 3D it appears - just ask any platinum printer. When you hit it right it is the difference between what things look like and what they feel like.

It is a much different thing than a journalist is after, for instance. Lots of kinds of art in photography... all valid

Lenny
eigerphoto.com

[Lenny Eiger]

What about efke/ADOX 25? I've used it for years in rolls and sheet and quire like it?

I think Efke is the current winner. It's slow... and that's difficult. There has been much said on this forum about it. I think the Efke of 2005 was fabulous - when they got it right. I had great results, then a few bad boxes. The late 2006 Efke is ok, but I am not as happy as I would like to be. They changed the formula. I also test every box now before I use it...

I used to love to shoot in those lighting situations thta stretched the film - low light inside a dark forest, etc. I don't think any film made today can stetch. I'd settle for some 1970's era Tri-X or FP4. SuperXX...

[sanking]

I tried a lot of developers, probably 30 or so, even invented one of my own to try and get the most out of TGrained films. (I did figure out what the agent was that made TMax and others develop out.) I know a lot about development, different developers and how they interact with silver grains. I've been photographing for more than 40 years and have taught the zone system to a ton of people so I think I know how to expose by now.

It is my opinion, but in my opinion, these films really stink. That said, it has a lot to do with what one is after. I want a full tonal range, as I have said. If you print contrasty like good 'ol Ansel, it doesn't matter what film you use. However, if you want to print like a platinum printer the TGrained films will fail you. Every time.

I scan my images on a drum scanner and print with custom mixed six dilution b&w inks. This medium has far more range than a silver print, and even a bit longer range than a platinum print. The more tones you get in your image, the more 3D it appears - just ask any platinum printer. When you hit it right it is the difference between what things look like and what they feel like.

It is a much different thing than a journalist is after, for instance. Lots of kinds of art in photography... all valid

Lenny
eigerphoto.com

As you say, it is your opinion. I also know a thing or two about printing in a number of media, including silver, the inkjet thing, and a number of alternative processes, including real carbon transfer and platinum, both with in-camera negatives and digital negatives carefully crafted for these processes, and I don't share your opinion in the least as regards T-grain films.

As for the 3-D effect, well-made carbon transfer prints have more real dimensional qualities than most people could imagine, unless they read brail and understand the potential of real raised relief.


Sandy King

[alec4444]

What about efke/ADOX 25? I've used it for years in rolls and sheet and quire like it?

I haven't shot TMax films yet (a bit expensive for a newbie) but I have been shooting Efke in both medium format & large format for some time now. I love it. In the 120 format you have to be really careful to avoid having light leaks along the edges, but if care is taken the images are stunning. Hell, the negatives themselves are stunning. I typically develop in Rodinal (I paid dearly for a batch and now I'm running out) in 1:100 dilution for about 18 mins.

I've been wanting to pair this film with the Adox Vario Classic paper, but on J&C's site they say that a yellow safelight may fog the film. I use a rental lab in NYC and I don't have the option to use a red safelight...they're also not set up for 2-bath developing. I may give it a go anyway because I'm that intrigued. =)

--A

[Ted Harris]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one shooting the Adox/efke 25. I have been using a bit of it in both 4x5 and 5x7. I have used its precusors (adox KB14 and KB17) extensively in years past. Inf act, one of my fondest 'photo memories' is my first venture into the old Freestyle retail store circa 1972 to buy some long rolls of KB14 to spool. Waht a store that used to be ...

[Lenny Eiger]

As you say, it is your opinion. I also know a thing or two about printing in a number of media, including silver, the inkjet thing, and a number of alternative processes, including real carbon transfer and platinum, both with in-camera negatives and digital negatives carefully crafted for these processes, and I don't share your opinion in the least as regards T-grain films.
As for the 3-D effect, well-made carbon transfer prints have more real dimensional qualities than most people could imagine, unless they read brail and understand the potential of real raised relief.
Sandy King

I hope it's ok if we disagree. Further, I have nothing but great respect for all kinds of alternative proceses. I think gravure is truly amazing....

Lenny

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

However, if you want to print like a platinum printer the TGrained films will fail you. Every time.

All of my pictures are made with tmx 400, you might not like them, but let me tell you the film delivers great tonality each and every time....