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Thread: Opportunities for Fine Art....

  1. #101
    Jack Flesher's Avatar
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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Moat View Post
    Hello Jack Flesher,

    How you carry yourself, or present yourself, can also be a measure of success. In that, I felt that you, Jim Collum, and a few others seemed (in my eyes) to be successful, based upon that observation.
    Thank you Gordon. I appreciate the comment and having my name included with a class act like Jim Collum!

    It seems to me, and I would happily be proven wrong in this, that the same efforts and expense of marketing oneself in fine art photography might be better spent towards pushing commercial photography. My guess is that the return on time and money would be greater. I certainly put substantially more efforts into my commercial photography, though I find it odd at times that my fine art photography seems to generate a greater level of respect, even from commercial clients.

    So I guess (yup, do lot's of that) that in a way (for some) exhibiting art photography is a form of marketing in itself. That can drive the success of commercial work, or teaching, or even writing.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    A G Studio
    Yes I would agree with this on all counts, at least speaking from my own personal experience.

    I would add this observation for others wanting to break into the art field and again, my own personal experience only, so YMMV: I have found that looking to other artists for support is far less productive than looking to a businessperson for support. For whatever reason, it seems other artists are happy to help until your work gets good, then they view you as direct competition and do whatever is necessary to foil your progress. By contrast, I've found most good business people are quite willing to help a less experienced colleague advance, understanding the benefit of collaboration. Obviously, using my logic, the best mentor to find would be a good artist who is also a good businessperson, but this seems to be a rather rare combination of talents

    Cheers,
    Jack Flesher

    www.getdpi.com

  2. #102
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    WADR, My experience contrasts yours Jack,

    I find it odd at times that my fine art photography seems to generate a greater level of respect, even from commercial clients.
    Gordon

    This is a common phenomena to photographers who straddle both arenas.

    I always found it much easier to generate income with commercial photography, but that my best marketing was the shows, books etc. from my personal fine art photography. For instance right now, almost a year after my 30 year retrospective book and exhibit, I am buried with commercial work like never before and this is with no efforts at all to market my commercial work for many years.

    This synergy is something I discovered many years ago. The kind of clientel that I have respect the fact that I am an artist. So all the publicity associated with my personal photography raises my stature with commercial clients and serves to remind them that I am out there. [understanding this phenomena] I of course market my exhibits and books etc. heavily with my clients and potential clients as I would to collectors but I never mention my commercial work. Also many of my commercial clients, such as magazines, end up writting revues or editorial about my art projects partly because it raises their profile to have a name artist contributing to their magazine.
    from my post a few posts back.

    I have not promoted my commercial work in 15 years and business is booming. Another synergistic effect of this is that many of my commercial clients are some of the biggest private collectors of my personal work.
    Last edited by Kirk Gittings; 7-Nov-2006 at 14:07.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  3. #103
    Michael Alpert
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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    Kirk,

    I did not think that this discussion was about your work or my work, but about how one defines "success" as an artist. There are obviously differing ideas on this subject. I offered the names of four artists whose work I consider successful. I felt that Dirk R.'s view was not treated with respect. Only a fool would argue that a person's livelihood is unimportant. So I am not exaxtly disagreeing with you. I am just suggesting that you might think about letting a different kind of definition exist without insulting it.

    Talking about insults, Paulr, don't call me silly names. You know as well as I do that very few photographers managed to make a good living from print sales. Thousands of other committed photographers do the best they can. By saying that a mercantile definition is not large enough to encompass the full measure of success that artist-photographers can acheive, I am not telling anyone that they are "bound to fail." Perhaps my previous response was not clear. If you can reply in a civil manner, I am interested in what you have to say; but please don't respond if you are going to lower the conversation to name-calling.

  4. #104
    Jack Flesher's Avatar
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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Gittings View Post
    WADR, My experience contrasts yours Jack,
    I am glad to hear that and hope my experience is singular; it gives hope for the future of our chosen artistic discpline
    Jack Flesher

    www.getdpi.com

  5. #105

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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    For whatever reason, it seems other artists are happy to help until your work gets good, then they view you as direct competition and do whatever is necessary to foil your progress.
    Sad, but it does seem to be that way.

  6. #106

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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    I disagree with Jack Flasher,

    what kind of an image would an established photographer gain by supporting mediocre work?

    Moreover you are generalizing a bit.
    I believe established artists who believe strongly in their work have no reason to behave in such manner, and many of them don't.
    Many artists who don't forget why they started the profession, do it primarely for the sake of being instruments of bringing to light what is good and not known yet, and this can be done under guise of being a teacher or just referring artists to people in the business.
    We have one of these people right here in this forum.
    all the best.

  7. #107
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    For whatever reason, it seems other artists are happy to help until your work gets good, then they view you as direct competition and do whatever is necessary to foil your progress.
    While this is generally true. One obvious exception is this very forum! There are a number of experts and established artists here who regularly and freely share their knowledge.

    Sorry I didn't see Domenico's post. Ditto
    Last edited by Kirk Gittings; 7-Nov-2006 at 17:24.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  8. #108

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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    Since when is money the determining factor for being considered successful?

    Its the unrealistic expectation of what a successful artist is. Respectfully, using the premise of this thread, many artists would fail to meet such expectations. From Frans Hals, to Rembrandt, F. Goya, VGogh, A. Schoenberg, Mozart, G. Mahler (as a composer) and the list continues.

    Schoenberg had to teach society women and any other suckers who had spare change. Charles Ives was an insurance salesman. Those two alone were major forces in 20c music.

    The point being who gives a shit if you are making money as a creative person? It would be my mistake to think I could pay the rent being "creative". For me, Art is crack --- and I cant ever get enough - and Im always chasing that high. Llike an addict, I always end up spending more on it than I ever receive.

    George
    Last edited by George Kara; 7-Nov-2006 at 18:02.

  9. #109

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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    I agree with George's colourful statement, although I think that achieving freedom from the day job through your craft is not impossible.
    I quit my job about 1 year ago(it seems to me a month)and although it has been VERY hard and many times discouraging, I am still at it.
    To say that it is impossible to make a living with your craft, is like purposefully breaking your leg before the race.
    I have learned more things about myself, bettered my skills and polished my marketing tools more in this year then in any other time of my life.
    Moreover in this day and age things are much easier then at the times of Goya, Mozart(who for a while did have a fortune)and Van Gogh. The internet is a great tool for marketin, use it..
    I still have a lot of focus as a fine art photographer, but since this is still the beginning I am willing to apply my photogrphic skills in absolutely anything but porno and sunsets :-)
    You'll be amazed, like I am many times still, what can happen if you stick to your guns, if you commit yourself to those dark times, when the future looks bleak.
    Someone said the life of an artist is not for everyone, and I disagree if it is intended at the emotional level.
    I have found strenghts inside of myself I thought i didn't have, I went through an internal warfare before making such a leap of faith.
    Never put limits to yourself and never allow yourself to be convinced by negativity: with that you get nowhere.

  10. #110
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Re: Opportunities for Fine Art....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Gittings View Post
    ... I have no desire to pursue a direction just for the sake of doing something unique and different, I.E. "personal expression" (another art school mythology, because nothing is really new, we all work out of some tradition including all of the photographers you mentioned).
    I'm going to take issue with this one point (not your others). I think there's always the possibility for something new, and working within a tradition does not preclude this.

    Shakespeare wrote poetry about the most familiar topic in the world (love) and in one of the the most familiar forms (the sonnet). But his point of view, his language, his sensibilities, were all uniquely his, and would not be mistaken for anyone else's who came before him.

    Once in a while someone's vision will be so unique that they'll have to invent new forms to express it. I think of Shoenberg's 12 tone music, or Wallace Stevens' reinvention of the language, or the cubists' demolition of naturalistic perspective. But personal expression doesn't automatically require such grand inventions.

    It does require an honest, first-hand response to the world. As opposed to simply recycling ideas that you've assimilated. This is a lot easier said than done, as the mountains of derivative work in the world can attest. And it can sometimes be hard to make the distinction at first ... to know if you're standing on the shoulders of giants, or simply standing in their tripod holes.

    The goal, if it needs saying, isn't actually to make something new. It's to make the work that's truly yours. If you manage this--and not very many do--then your work will be new. It's simply not conceivable that someone in 2006 will have a first-hand response to their world that looks like Edward Weston's first-hand response seventy years ago. The world is different. Our cultural understanding of it is overwhelmingly different. The accumulated history of art from the years that have passed is staggering. The only way someone today can end up in the same place as an artist from the 1920s is by copying. It's really that simple.

    Maybe for some people doing their own authentic work isn't important. But I wonder why that would be. Everyone here who photographs with big cameras is certainly putting in enough time.
    Last edited by paulr; 7-Nov-2006 at 21:24.

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