'Double boxed'

[Jonathan Brewer]

I'm not getting involved in the 'fraud at ebay' thread, but I will contribute what I now do to avoid any problems when I'm either the sender or the receiver of any goods.

Right or wrong, it was relayed to me over the phone by my shipper in great detail how to get prompt action on a claim whether it's insured/not insured in terms of how to ship, they empasized double boxing, if it's isn't double boxed, your claim is going to take forever, even if it's insured. This guy may not have stated his companies position correctly over the phone, but it makes sense to me.

When I'm the sender, I double box, I take a picture of the item separate, then I take a pic of it packed in the inner box sitting in the opened outer box, and then make a point of asking the receiver if they want insurance included in the shipping estimate, many say they do. If I'm the receiver, I asked that the the item be double boxed, and I get insurance.

Stuff can take a beating as it's shipped, I sent some stuff that the receiver of the goods says was pretty 'beat up' in terms of the outer box, and I've gotten some pretty beat up boxes where the inside box saved the day.

Bottom line from what I've been told(over the phone), if you can prove that it's been carefully packed and double boxed, you'll get action, if you can't you got problems.

[PViapiano]

Jonathan...

Exactly...that's the way I do it, too!

[Capocheny]

Jonathan,

I've only double-boxed one item in the time I've been sending things out... and I've only received one double-boxed item (and that was really, really recent) ever. As a matter of fact, that item was from Darr.

When I ship things... I always make sure to use an over-sized container and pack it really, really well with both solid styrofoam boards and/or foam peanuts surrounding the item. I've never had a buyer complain that an item I've sent was damaged in any way, shape, or form. Perhaps, I've been lucky?

That said, I've also never had an item received in damaged condition. Again, perhaps, I've been fortunate. I have, however, received an item that was damaged even before it went into the box. And, lo and behold, that was from a well-known photographer out of LA.

Anyway, what you suggest... makes a lot of sense to me. Perhaps, I'll have to make some changes in the way I do things.

Out of curiosity... do you ever get buyers complaining about "excessive" shipping costs as a result of your double-boxing? I know it isn't going to cost all that much more but... people are funny that way!

Cheers

[Frank Petronio]

Making insurance claims, especially international ones, is an exercise in futulity. I tell people on my eBay auctions that I won't insure under $50 because it would never be worthwhile to persue it. And for international orders I simply won't insure the package sent via mail because it is nearly impossible to collect. If it is important, they should pony up for FedEx and do it right, or otherwise they assume all risk. Of course I package things carefully too, but international shipping to non-English speaking countries is just a crapshoot between theft and damage.

[Jonathan Brewer]

'Out of curiosity... do you ever get buyers complaining about "excessive" shipping costs as a result of your double-boxing? I know it isn't going to cost all that much more but... people are funny that way!'...........

.............Even if it's to their benefit, it's ultimately to my benefit, in the sense that at my age, I just don't want the time wasted in a hassle, either w/the folks I'm doing business with, or having to make a claim, ..............I barely have time to take care of my family, my kids, their education, let alone my business and my wife's business, and the list goes on, I double box because I'm determined not to waste my time in hassles.

[Brian Ellis]

I recently sold a 240mm G Claron on ebay. The lens was packaged by Pak Mail and shipped by Federal Express. It was insured for the purchase price (I never sell anything on ebay that costs more than about $50 without requiring insurance). The lens and shutter were severely damaged in shipping. The buyer returned the lens and I refunded the purchase price plus two-way shippping. It took a whole bunch of phone calls over about a four month period with Fed Ex and Pak Mail but I did eventually collect on the insurance. I also had to provide a repair estimate so I had to send the lens to S.K. Grimes to prove that the cost of repair would exceed the insurance amount. In my various talks with Pak Mail and Fed Ex nobody said anything about double boxing (it wasn't double-boxed and the real cause of the damage in my opinion was the poor packaging job by Pak Mail). Needless to say, trying to get people at Pak Mail and Fed Ex to understand what a large format lens is, and how the shutter relates to the lens, was at least half the problem.

This was my first (and last) experience with this particular Pak Mail outlet. For many years I used a Pak Mail outlet in another city to package and ship all my ebay items and they did a terrific job. I used to get compliments from buyers about the excellent packaging. I charged the buyers only the UPS or USPS shipping charge, I paid for the additional shipping charge that Pak Mail adds and also paid for the packaging. I thought it was worth the relatively small additional cost to know the packaging would be perfect and to avoid the kinds of hassles and bad feelings that can result when an item is damaged in shipment.

[C. D. Keth]

'Out of curiosity... do you ever get buyers complaining about "excessive" shipping costs as a result of your double-boxing? I know it isn't going to cost all that much more but... people are funny that way!'...........

.............Even if it's to their benefit, it's ultimately to my benefit, in the sense that at my age, I just don't want the time wasted in a hassle, either w/the folks I'm doing business with, or having to make a claim, ..............I barely have time to take care of my family, my kids, their education, let alone my business and my wife's business, and the list goes on, I double box because I'm determined not to waste my time in hassles.

Yes, as a matter of fact. I was going to add that. I sent something and asked the buyer if he wanted it double boxed. I told him it would raise the shipping price somewhat but be a good near-guarantee against damage. He opted against and it arrived irrepairably damaged. I pretty much told him it's his own fault. I packed it well and exactly how he asked me to pack it.

[PViapiano]

I double-box and eat the costs myself. It's usually not that much more on bog ticket items like lenses, and the goodwill you put out there comes back to you.

However, you can make some choices on eBay that let you specify a handling cost, so why not add that to your shipping quote? Use the handling charge to buy 2 boxes and help pay for the extra pound and a half it'll add to the load.

This way, everybody's happy...

[Jonathan Brewer]

Brian............Christopher..................One serious hassle I had was over the condition of a camera I got from an outfit, it was seriously jacked, so bad, that it was unusable, the folks I got the camera from were not going to return my money without a tussle and so the bitter taste in my mouth was that I was essentially in 'limbo', I didn't have the use of the camera, and I didn't have the money.

I had paid for the privilege of stressing out for four and a half months, sweating it out for a refund, which I eventually got, less shipping, .............................anything is better than going through something like this.

[alec4444]

If it is important, they should pony up for FedEx and do it right, or otherwise they assume all risk.

A friend of mine shipped his mountain bike via insured Fedex. The carbon fibre handlebars arrived with holes, and the frame was severely damaged. He wasn't able to collect insurance on it, and his dad even worked for Fedex!!!!!!!!!!!

Because of this, and of other reports I've heard, I always opt out of insurance. I think the whole thing is a scam, not unlike the concept of purchasing the "extended warranty" on household electronics in sleazy electronics stores. A lot of money is made on that. A lot of money is probably made on shipping insurance as well.

Paying extra for good packing materials is another story, however. I think people are leary of paying a lot of $$ for shipping because of the number of people out there that charge "handling" fees. Shipping expenses have gotten a bad rap.

--A