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Thread: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

  1. #1
    45-57-617
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    Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    Hi all,

    This is my first query so please forgive any errors I make !

    I am considering the move into LF and my great motivation is for higher quality wide-angle landscapes in particular. I can also see some streetscapes too !

    My research so far points me in the direction of an Arca Swiss Discovery with bag bellows running a Schneider 72mm SA ... but I want a 6x17 back ! And possibly a 6x12 also ...

    Can I do it ?

    I started out with the Shen Hao thought but it looks as though the Shen will not handle a 72mm with an amount of movement - at least not like an Arca Swiss will. I prefer the field camera idea better than the monorail but will compromise if needed.

    If there is a 6x17 back to fit the Discovery, what is it ?

    Cheers !

  2. #2
    lazy retired bum
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
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    Lake Oswego, Oregon
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    264

    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    I do not know your basic photographic skills or knowledge, but why don't you do what many of us did starting out, get a basic camera, a Discovery is an excellent machine, but so is the Shen Hao,a basic lens, if you really want a 72SA I guess that's fine, and learn the craft before heading for the exotica. I am not knowledgeable about the Shen, but is there not a recessed board that will allow the use of a 72?

    Consider what you like to photograph, where you like to photograph and choose accordingly. I lugged a field camera and a heavy aluminum tripod all over Mt. Hood with my only lens being a 210 and had a great time for many years.

    It sounds a bit like you've got photographic fantasy-itis, a common condition wherein one is variably unhappy, awaiting the next piece of gear because THEN, you'll do great work... You say you are "considering" moving to LF, but also say you already have a Shen Hao. Do you really know how much movement you need? You might be surprised to find out that landscape photography requires very little in the way of movements. A little tilt often goes a long way and in the field, shifts are rarely needed, one can usually move the camera. Many photographers use monorails in the field.

    See what others may say but relax and have fun.

    Eric

  3. #3

    Join Date
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    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    No 6x17 back will fit a 4x5 without some sort of kludge adapter - 4x5 is only about 12cm wide. Since money does not seem to be an object, get a Walker Titan XL 5x7 and a Canham 6x17 back. It is designed for the 72xl. You can also get a 4x5 adapter back. It is the ultimate wide angle set up. If money is a concern, and dropping about 6K US $ before you take your first picture is a problem, you might go with Eric's advice. Stick a used 75mm on the ShenHoa and shoot a few hundered shots and see what you like and do not like.
    Last edited by Ed Richards; 25-Oct-2006 at 07:32.

  4. #4

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    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    Hello from France

    There is no problem to fit a 6x12 rollfim back to any view camera with the International 4"x5"-9x12 back. Basically there are two kinds of attachments for rollfilm backs, certain rollfilm backs slip under the ground glass(GG), some others require that you take the GG off and that you attach the back to the so-called graflock latches.

    The Arca Swiss Discovery being fitted with the international back & graflock latches, you can fit a great variety of rollfilm backs.
    In 6x12 I know the existence of the expensive Sinar vario back that slips under the GG.
    There is a Linhof Techno-Rollex 6x12 back but probably it uses graflock latches (to be confirmed).
    See also :
    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/sh612.html
    I'm using the 6x12 Horseman film back I purchased from a gentleman on this forum. It is similar to the one marketed by Arca Swiss. I use it with a 4x5 F-line "field" Arca Swiss camera. This back uses the graflok latches so I have to take the GG off. This back is not too heavy, and is very simple to use. And of course it is compatible with the Arca Swiss Discovery camera.

    Now about a 6x17 rollfim back compatible with a standard view or field camera. Those beasts are rare so I'll only speak about two species I'm aware of, thanks to this forum.
    There is a motor-driven Canham 6x17 back that fits to certain a 5x7"-13x18 camera featuring graflok latches.

    There is a 6x17 chinese back

    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...-hao-6x17.html

    that fits most 4"x5" cameras with a special GG device which is offset with respect to a standard 4"x5" GG. In order to accommodate the wider image field of 17cm wide on a 4"x5" back (about 12-13 cm wide) the chinese back uses a trick to move the GG and back away from the original GG. Doing so you can use a 17cm wide image with some major restrictions on camera movements, but it works.
    So : you cannot fit the Canham back to a Discovery without some extensive modifications, I am not even sure that the Canham back would fit a 5x7" Arca Swiss camera. It is possible to convert a Discovery into a 5"x7" camera but you should consider that the price of the conversion kit (a 4x5"->5x7" tapered bellows plus a 5x7" back) is equivalent to the full price of some other 5x7" view camera brands ;-)

    You can fit the 6x17 chinese back to the Discovery since it is compatible with the 4"x5" international back. See the above mentioned article.
    Last edited by Emmanuel BIGLER; 25-Oct-2006 at 07:43.

  5. #5

    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    The Shen-Hao HZX45A-II has enough room for movements with a 72mm SA to go beyond the image circle. It is tight with a flat lensboard, so using a recessed board makes life easier. Also, while the standard bellows will collapse enough, a bag bellows is recommended.

    There is a 6x17 back that will fit the Shen-Hao that is offset from the back of the camera, and has a separate ground glass for focusing. To use that with a very wide lens, a recessed lensboard will also help. You will still not have much movement before getting out of the image circle.

    Since it seems that you are somewhat new to large format, you should know that a 72mm (or 65mm, 75mm, or 80mm) is not as easy to focus and compose on the ground glass as more normal (longer focal length) lenses. You might also consider getting a fresnel lens. Definitely make sure you have a good dark cloth and focusing loupe.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    A G Studio
    Last edited by Gordon Moat; 25-Oct-2006 at 10:16.

  6. #6

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    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    Call Rod KLukas at Photomark in Phoenix, AZ - he can help.

  7. #7
    45-57-617
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    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    Thanks all for your kind words.

    I have been using 35mm for nearly 20 years and want more detail in wide landscapes. I would only dabble in actual sheet film (probably until I got hooked!) I live in Western Australia - a place of very flat, wide natural scenes. We have many more 'wide' landscapes than 'high' landscapes. There is a lot of film wasted here on photographing clouds or just plain blue sky!

    Eric: I should have said "started out thinking about .. a Shen Hao" I do not own one. Sorry for that.

    Emmanuel: Thanks! It looks as though a 5x7 is more suited to the 6x17 ... a secondhand 5x7 could be the go. I didn't know the Discovery had the Graflock latches. I think I need to research the Canham 6x17 back and find which cameras it will fit. The 6x12 looks to be relatively common fare and the 6x17 something of a specialty.

    Ed: Money IS a concern. Photography is a costly business! I want a particular outcome that my 35mm wont give. I have photos of forts in India taken with a 17-35mm Nikon lens that when scanned are just hopeless. It is really sad that I wont be able to repeat these photos ever again. I don't want to be silly here but there must be a reasonable solution to this 6x17 thing. Whatever setup gets that outcome reliably before the money blowout wins. I won't be buying cameras with silly price tags! A Discovery price would be the limit. Then again, convincing the wife of a future upgrade would be worse than death!

    Gordon: Cheers mate ! I've read bits n pieces about the Shen Hao and wasn't sure if it could take the 72. Having read what others say about the Discovery's smooth nature and ability to something like 58mm, I have a little worry or two about the Shen Hao - it seems too good to be true with its features though.

    Scott: When the time comes, I will certainly do the phone call thing to people who know. Thanks for the tip.

    I do have an 'itis' of some sort. Maybe I have many.

    Thanks again to you all.

  8. #8
    Doug Dolde
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    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    Just shoot 4x5 and crop if you want a pano. Much cheaper and simpler.

  9. #9

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    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    Yeah, for the price of even the Chinese Pan backs you can buy a case of Readyloads so why hassle?

    Or on the other hand, a Linhof or Horseman 6x12 or 6x17 is so much sexier (easier to handle I mean) than a kludged back on a view camera.
    Last edited by Frank Petronio; 25-Oct-2006 at 19:02.

  10. #10

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    Re: Arca Swiss Discovery setup

    I'm not big on real wide angles or roll film backs but it seems kind of odd that you're going from 35mm to a 4x5 camera for the better technical quality 4x5 can bring, but then you're not going to use 4x5 film and instead will stick a medium format roll film back on the camera. I realize that personal preferences enter into all this but to me it would make more sense to do one thing or the other, i.e. either get a medium format pano camera and use roll film, or get a 4x5 camera and use 4x5 film. As someone else pointed out, you can always crop 4x5 to panoramic dimensions, you can even cut out a piece of cardboard to your pano dimensions and stick it over the 4x5 ground glass so that you see things the way they'll look after the crop. Using a roll film back on a 4x5 camera to make panoramic images seems to me combining the worst of both worlds, i.e. you have to schlepp a 4x5 system around to get medium format images (recognizing that you do at least get the benefit of camera movements).

    Just my thoughts, I've never quite understood the whole idea of roll film backs on large format cameras except as a means of carrying more film around on a long trip.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

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