Printing RGB B&W with lulu.com (Digital Print on Demand)

[paulr]

I prepared the images in photoshop on a calibrated monitor, using adobe rgb color space. I made all the photographs 300 ppi at final print size. All were brought into the layout at 100%, and sharpened specifically for viewing at this size.

I designed the book in indesign, to lulu's exact specifications. The key thing that they leave out is that all colors must be RGB. Including black. Don't use the default black; create a swatch that R0 G0 B0, and make sure all black text and objects use this.

I then created a distiller preset with the information in the faq. It's a basic set of presets that leaves the color space and resolution of everything alone.

I did a final touch up in acrobat pro, to discard unused objects and to flatten transparencies, etc.

This is just what I remember off the top of my head. I'll have to dig up my notes at home to get all the details straight.

[paulr]

We've tried it a dozen different ways, it is just about impossible to get the four toners to neutral. Printing black only looks lousy.

Do you think it would be easier if you weren't going for neutral? Like if your images were all slightly warm-toned?

I'm assuming this isn't what you want, but it might work out better for people with toned work. maybe a deliberate color shift would hide the minor accidental ones.

[Frank Petronio]

yeah, I tried going with a nice sepia but the green-magenta seems to be touchy. Part of the issue is mixing full color with B&W on the same project...

[Frank Petronio]

Another update: I am trying the Shared Ink photographer's program. They are running a promo with a free 45-day trial membership. If you mention my name I guess I get a referral point or something but don't sweat it.

http://www.sharedink.com/products/fpo/default.aspx

Anyway they use a different technology (Indigo) using ink rather than toner and they have an excellent reputation for actually looking at what they are printing. So far they only print from Photoshop files and have proprietary online layout software, but it is supposed to work -- I will have a sample in about ten days and I'll post my thoughts -- but compared to what I've seen these guys are the best yet.

[Michael Gordon]

Frank: I made a Shared Ink book about 1.5 years ago, and I'm pretty sure I commented about it on the LF Forum. Even though doing business with SI is excellent and the final results are top notch, no matter how you try to 'tone' RGB neutral files for CMYK output, you're going to see the beloved green metamerism.

[MJSfoto1956]

Thanks. My main question is whether it would work to use "toned" RGB files to simulate sepia-toned greyscale images so that at least I get a warm image.

I would suggest being sure that the images are sized exactly to 300dpi (no scaling in InDesign) and would also suggest you introduce a very small amount of Gaussian noise to your photo (Filter/Noise/Add Noise). Yes you can add a slight sepia tint as a layer in Photoshop and that should reduce the cyan metemerism significantly.

[Mike Boden]

you're going to see the beloved green metamerism.

Michael,

Could you elaborate on this comment a little more? The reason I ask is that I've printed some pure grayscale B&W images (no tone) on a Lightjet printer at A&I using their printer profile, and the images all come out with a slight green cast to them. Apparently this is a know symptom, and the lab suggested that I don't use their printer profile at all but instead convert the image to grayscale(if not already there) and then to sRGB. This is the final file delivered to the printer directly. I haven't tried it yet, but your comment about green metamerism resounds of similarity.

[Michael Gordon]

Mr. Boden: that beloved green is the result of trying to mix colored inks into neutral or near-neutral output. The only way to avoid it is to print only with black inks (duo-, tri-, quadtone, etc), or in the case of photo prints, use a genuine b/w process (the Lightjet isn't it, unless you image to true b/w papers [few labs in the country do this]). For more on metamerism, google or see 'Real World Color Managment' by Fraser/Murphy/Bunting.

I can't see how converting to grayscale, then to sRGB, and then outputting via RGB lasers on Fuji or Kodak color papers is going to quell the greenies. A&I should know better, but I've seen, listened to, and dealt with some of the employees that work the counters and answer phones

[Mike Boden]

For more on metamerism, google or see 'Real World Color Managment' by Fraser/Murphy/Bunting.

I have this book already. I'll have to revisit it and refresh my memory.

I can't see how converting to grayscale, then to sRGB, and then outputting via RGB lasers on Fuji or Kodak color papers is going to quell the greenies. A&I should know better, but I've seen, listened to, and dealt with some of the employees that work the counters and answer phones

Yup...very strange. But I no longer deal with the front counter at A&I. I go straight to the back room and speak with the same person every time. As a result, I've been able to meet all the printers and various other people behind the scenes. After noticing the green cast, I inquired about it. One person who's been working at A&I for too many years said that he did some testing and he claims (for whatever reason beyond my knowledge) that delivering a B&W image file to the Lightjet in the sRGB colorspace instead of their printer profile actually results in a neutral print without the green cast. But like I said, I haven't tried it yet so this is hearsay at the moment.

Personally, I don't like the B&W prints on a Lightjet anyways. So I'm now trying to figure out where and how to build a darkroom again. It's been more than five years since I had my own darkroom. The problem is my house is tiny, and it's driving me crazy!!!