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Thread: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

  1. #1

    90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    Hello!
    I'm moving into LF from MF - I'm considering this lens for general urban documentary work including landscape and portraiture (I'm talking environmental portraits - not head and shoulders).
    I'm aware of the theory that generally LF lenses are not designed to be used wide open. However as I'm going to use the lens in conjunction with the Fotoman 45PS, being able to shoot wide open would be a big advantage in low light where a tripod is not possible.
    I would like to hear your opinions on using this lens wide open.
    I'm also interested to hear about other lenses which may be sharper and generally perform very well wide open - considering apertures of 4.5 or 5.6 - focal length 90-180mm.
    There is a compatibility list of lenses for the 45PS here:

    http://www.fotomancamera.com/prodect_list.asp?id=190

    I'm sorry if this is an old question - I searched the forum but couldn't find anything relevant.

    Thankyou!

  2. #2

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    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    FWIW, I had a Fujinon 150mm f/5.6 that was very sharp wide open, here`s a scan : http://www.pbase.com/plexi/image/52320279/original

  3. #3

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    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    How do you plan on focusing this if you use it on a Fotoman? Unless you use the ground glass, which means a tripod, shooting a 90 at 4.5 is going to require better focus accuracy than you are going to get with guess focusing. Go for a graphic or an old Linhof rangerfinder with a cammed lens if you want to shoot at anything wider than about F16. Anything longer and DOF is going to be even more interesting. That, or get a good Metz flash.:-)

  4. #4

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    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    I put some numbers in a depth of field calculator:

    At f4.5 on 4x5 with a 90mm lens, with a subject distance of 10 feet the depth of field is 5 feet; with a subject distance of 20 feet the depth of field is 26 feet.

    The hyperfocal distance is 39 feet.

    Not very good for near far compositions, but for an environmental portrait with an out of focus background it would be fine.

  5. #5

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    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    Ron, are you sure you didn't make a mistake? Or did you use a large CoC?

    I ask because http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html gives an answer wildly at variance with yours. 4x5 film, 90 mm lens, f/4.5, focused distance 10'. Near limit 8.59', far limit 12', hyperfocal distance 59.5'

  6. #6

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    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm
    Ron, are you sure you didn't make a mistake? Or did you use a large CoC?

    I ask because http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html gives an answer wildly at variance with yours. 4x5 film, 90 mm lens, f/4.5, focused distance 10'. Near limit 8.59', far limit 12', hyperfocal distance 59.5'
    Dan, here is the link to the calculator I used. They used 150 micrometers as the COC for 4x5. Of course that is flexible, and really can only be determined by how large one intends to enlarge the neg. and how sharp they want it to be. But my point was not to give him an exact value but an idea how difficult it might be to shoot using a prefocus.

    http://bobatkins.com/photography/tec...calc.html#calc

  7. #7
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    The other answer is use a faster film and stop it down. When I was testing teh Fotoman 45PS I used mainly ISO 400 film and no trouble getting sharp images using zone focusing with the lens usually stopped down to somewhere between f11 and f32. With reasonable I had no trouble handholding with shutter speeds of 1/30 or faster.

  8. #8

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    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    In terms of absolute sharpness wide open, yes, it should be sharp as hell. At f/11 it will be even sharper. But all the other factors shuch as shutter speed, camera shake, and focusing accuracy will have 100X more impact on your image quality than the performance of the 90/4.5 over a lesser (cheaper - lighter - smaller) lens.

    The 90/4.5 will have more even illumination over the 5 inch frame than a lesser lens. However, this is a less important concern for a "street camera". IMHO you would be better off sacrificing a stop or so and going with a much more compact and managable 90/6.8 Grandagon -- which will also be excellent at f/6.8 -- which will give you a touch more depth of field (which you will want anyway) and just being more disciplined to live with the f/6.8 for handheld work. Even if you have unlimited $ and can afford the f/4.5 I think I'd still go for the smaller 6.8 in this case.

    One small lens that would be even better IMHO would be the 75/4.5 Grandagon - it is fast, small, and would give you depth of field to spare - slightly wider but that would be good in this case.

  9. #9

    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    Thankyou for your advice gentlemen, it is much appreciated!
    For impromptu environmental portraits zone focussing would be the only way -
    I'm starting to think of going wider - maybe 47-75mm - What is your opinion on the best value, compact super-wide (in 45-75mm range) which is sharp at wider apertures?

  10. #10
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Re: 90/4.5 Grandagon N - Sharp wide open?

    I have the 75/4.5 Grandagon-N and the 55/4.5 Apo-Grandagon, and they are both quite sharp wide open. The 55 might be difficult to work with on 4x5" unless you really like superwides (like 14mm on a 35mm camera), but it would be a good match for a 6x12 back on a handheld camera, since part of the difficulty of using a lens that wide is dealing with the large foreground and sky. I'm having the 75/4.5 cammed for my 4x5" Technika V as we speak, so I'm really looking forward to using this handheld very soon.

    I used to have a 75/8 Super-Angulon, which was not as sharp in general as the newer Grandagon-N, and of course not as fast, but it was nice and compact for a handheld camera. The 65/8 S-A is also quite small. Both the 65/8 and 75/8 have a 49mm filter thread.

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