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Thread: Pyrocat HD question

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    Re: Pyrocat HD question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson
    I
    The reason I'm going to do some testing on my own is to find out if I can see it in my prints. Because I suspect that all this theoretical argument may have little practical importance, and the only way to find out if it matters to me, is for me to run the tests.
    That is often the case, but it is interesting to discover the truth on one’s own.

    As I mentioned earlier, I have done no specific testing as of yet. When I began scanning large format negatives I was so excited with the ability to apply tonal corrections and clean them up in Photoshop, and so pleased with the outcome in printing from digital negatives, it never crossed my mind to interrupt the fun to actually test what was happening.

    However, I have speculated on three areas of image quality that I consider germane to what further testing may reveal. Those areas are grain, apparent sharpness, and resolution.

    Grain – If one develops their negatives exclusively for scanning it makes sense to develop them to a relatively low CI. This minimizes grain and also maximizes resolution. In this circumstance, I personally do not believe that staining developers will offer any advantage over a good non-staining formula such as Xtol. However, if negatives are developed to relatively high CI for printing on AZO or alternative processes there may well be and advantage to the staining developers. How much advantage will depend on format and amount of magnification?

    Apparent sharpness – Apparent sharpness depends on both resolution and edge effects, but primarily the later. Most of the popular Pyro staining formulas are high acutance developers because they enhance edge or adjacency effects. Scanning can not capture this effect of the film because the edge effect lines, some as small as 1 micron in width, are simply too narrow to be captured by most scanners, even high quality drum scanners. To do so I calculate that one would need a scanner with resolution of about 10,000 spi with yield of at least 80%. I don’t have that kind of scanner.

    Resolution – Most of the scientific literature on developing indicates that resolution is a quality of films and is not much affected by developer, and Dr. Richard Henry reached the same conclusion after extensive testing of his own. But, it turns out that staining developers were not used, at least they were not in Dr. Henry’s testing or in any of the literature I have reviewed. So, I recently tested this myself, using a USAF chrome on glass resolution target with maximum resolution of 225 lppm. I tested two staining developers and two non-staining developers. Guess what. It turns out that the staining developers gave slightly better resolution with every film and in every single test. The difference was not great, say for a given film like Delta 100 we get about 90-100 lppm with the staining developers, and 75-85 with the non-staining developer. Is this difference significant? Well, potentially it could be, depending on the capability of your scanner and the amount of magnification of the final print. Obviously, the weakest link in any imaging system determines final image quality, so if your scanner has a maximum potential of 50 lppm, which is in fact very, very good, there is no way to take advantage of 100 lppm on the film. So let us say, on this point it depends, but regardless, I definitely found some advantage in the staining developers for resolution. BTW, the developers tested were PMK and Pyrocat-HD, which gave about equal resolution in every test, and D76 1:1 and Xtol 1:2, which also tested about the same.

    Sandy King

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,955

    Re: Pyrocat HD question

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    However, I have speculated on three areas of image quality that I consider germane to what further testing may reveal. Those areas are grain, apparent sharpness, and resolution.
    I will compare Pyrocat-HD and XTOL for two different uses: as a general developer for negatives to be scanned; as a compensating developer.

    The main aspect of image quality I will consider is tonal gradation.

  3. #13

    Re: Pyrocat HD question

    Hi, I just received Camera view magazin and read an article about staining developers, subtitled - a conversation with some expert- .
    I find the article not deep enough about fundamental aspects of such developers. I'm not a specialist technically involved in densito measures. I have a densito but for B&W only (a Leiland) so unable to work acurately with stained negatives. I use from months the Sandy formula Pyrocat developer with TRIX and Bergger pf and be very satisfied with it. I get negatives suited for contact printing on AZO and Centennial too.
    Anyway I would ask about something which is pointed as specific character by users of staining developers and commented as dubious by others. I mean the staining PROPORTIONAL to silver density on the negative.
    Does it exist acurate work about that linearity silver/staining, in order to confirm that property?

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    2,955

    Re: Pyrocat HD question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pronier Jean Claude View Post
    Does it exist acurate work about that linearity silver/staining, in order to confirm that property?
    Here are some articles which speak to your questions:

    http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.htm

    http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html

    http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata...tainingdev.php

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