Relevance of Traditional Darkroom.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

well, the museums and photographic art galleries have already decided. (maggie smith is being sold right up there with her husband Jerry as photographic)

Mistakes can always be corrected......

[paulr]

Mistakes can always be corrected......

But what more typically happens is that the generation that considers the change a mistake dies off, and then very few people even remember there was a conflict.

Every other major change in the history of the medium was greeted with the same kind of contemp--dry plates, gelatin silver, small formats, color. There were always people saying "that new crap isn't photography." And then they died, and then most of the living had a hard time understanding what fuss was about.

The original question about the relevence of the darkroom in schools is a more interesting one. I'd love it if schools continued to teach it, even it gets considered an alternative or even historic set of processes. There's so much to be learned about photography as a whole by getting your hands wet in the dark, and going through all the traditional motions--in the same way other art students learn a lot by carving marble, making woodcuts, etching copper, mixing paint. Even if their ultimate goal is to work with cardboard or lead or video monitors.

But I also understand how some programs, either because of a progressive nature or because of budget squeezes, might choose to marginalize the darkroom. There are certainly educational advantages to a digital workflow, as far as letting students bring a large volume of work to fruition in a short time. I've seen a lot of beginners make huge strides with their digital cameras, simply because the instant feedback speeds the learning process. I think if I were teaching, I'd make the beginning classes all about image making, with instant gratification cameras. I'd start getting into issues of craft and different processes later on, when the students have an idea what they want to say.

[Brian Ellis]

Kirk's statement says that at the school where he teaches beginning students are taught digital, silver, and color processes on an equal footing, then they select which of the three paths they wish to follow. He concludes that "silver will remain at the core of the teaching of photography."

My experience as a student for two years, and an instructor for one year, at a large state university leads me to question that conclusion. At that university, and I suspect at many others, money and space were at a premium within the College of Fine Arts. Each department within the College - painting, pottery, sculpting, music, etc. - wanted more money and more space, both of which could come only at the expense of another department since neither the College's budget nor its physical plant was expanding.

In my two years as a student and one year as an instructor the traditional film editing facilities ("film" as in movies) were shut down entirely, the color portion of the darkroom was closed, and the painters, sculptors, and musicians were casting envious eyes at the money and space occupied by the remainder of the darkroom. The problem for the photography department in trying to keep the darkroom was aggravated by the fact that they also wanted money and space for computers, software, scanners, printers, and other digital equipment. The other departments argued that in an atmosphere of limited money and space having both was a luxury that couldn't be afforded and if the photography department wanted money and space for digital then it should give up the darkroom. I don't know how its all turned out, that was six years ago and I haven't kept up with what's going on at that university.

So while art schools such as the one at which Kirk teaches may have enough money and space for traditional darkroom facilities to happily co-exist with everything else, I'm not sure that's true at other colleges and universities. And as traditional silver photography dwindles in popularity I think it's going to become more and more difficult for photography departments to justify the space and money taken up by their darkroom facilities while simultaneously seeking money and space for their digital facilities. All of which leads me to think that silver photography may not remain at the core of teaching photography at many colleges and universities.

[Jim collum]

Mistakes can always be corrected......

[Kirk Gittings]

By way of explanation I offer a comparative axiom which is both well understood and accepted within the related (but distinctly different) field of fine art music. It is widely understood and acknowledged that the greatest jazz musicians throughout the history of the medium (to include those working today) remain those individuals who had received extensive training in classical music prior to having adopted a more contemporary approach to the medium.

To stick with the analogy, it is my firm belief that I would not have been able to achieve success with my contemporary approach to photography (the digital approach) without having previously had the benefit of a well-rounded education in the classical approach to the medium.

Both from Hunington Witherill's statement.

[cyrus]

The fine darkroom made print ( or alternative process prints too ) that come from a traditional film well handled is something of intrinsic value for its craft and material.

EXACTLY!
And in fact the rise in the popularity of digital images and the ease of making them will only magnify the intrinsic value and exclusive "specialness" of traditional prints!
Furthermore, I suspect that digital photography will encourage people to take up non-digital photography too.

[paulr]

The problem for the photography department in trying to keep the darkroom was aggravated by the fact that they also wanted money and space for computers, software, scanners, printers, and other digital equipment. The other departments argued that in an atmosphere of limited money and space having both was a luxury that couldn't be afforded and if the photography department wanted money and space for digital then it should give up the darkroom.

I've heard about this same battle going on at other schools. It's unfortunate, but it's the kind of real world problem these cash starved programs face. Ultimately, some of the decisions will be made based on things that have nothing to do with anyone's philosophy of what's best for the students or what's best for the future of the medium.

[Maris Rusis]

The traditional darkroom is the place where most of the personally creative black and white photographs one sees are made. Most people, even photographers, tend to forget that the photograph on the gallery wall is a photograph of what was in the camera not what was in front of the camera.

The making of a gelatin-silver photograph on a paper base is just as much an act of photography as exposing and developing film. In practice the gelatin silver photograph may be more important because camera original material (the negative) is rarely exhibited or valued except as a stage in the journey to the final pay-off.

The making of a photograph in the darkroom also offers opportunity for more creative choises in the appearance of the final photograph than can be done at the camera work stage. Much camera use seems limited to "clicking" on a piece of subject matter followed by commissioning an actual photographer to make an actual photograph from what results.

When I buy photographs for my collection I do so on the basis of knowing the darkroom worker who made the particular thing I am buying. It is an added bonus when the darkroom worker also did the camera work.

[David Luttmann]

EXACTLY!
And in fact the rise in the popularity of digital images and the ease of making them will only magnify the intrinsic value and exclusive "specialness" of traditional prints!
Furthermore, I suspect that digital photography will encourage people to take up non-digital photography too.

And the "ease of making them"....

You've obviously done very little digital "darkroom" work if you think it's easy. Working on an image in photoshop requires a different set of skills sets than those in a conventional darkroom.....but they are nontheless a skill set that takes quite a bit of work, knowledge, and experience to master. All the work I've done with B&W & color in the darkroom has assisted me greatly in the digital front as well. I think that conventional darkroom skills should still be taught.

As to correcting "mistakes"....that is already happening as the infinitely small minority claiming digital printing is not art are ignored by those who appreciate the the image and are not close minded. These people are being ignored more and more by the fine art world.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

To get back on topic, I read most of the opinions and was surprised even Dan was in favor of keeping the darkrooms. But lets face it, the economics of it tell us the darkroom as a teaching tool in high schools and colleges is doomed. The most important components of a darkroom, the film and paper, will become progresively more expensive and harder to get. If I was an university administrator I would not want to have to change supplies every semester just because someone decided to stop making the film/paper I chose to buy in quantitiy.

Lets also look at enlargers, Durst is gone, how much longer before Omega and Besler decide to get out too?

I also have to disagree with Witherill's opinion. We all learn by seeing other people's work. It just happened that for my generation and perhaps half of this generation silver was the prevalent method of printing. As digital becomes more prevalent and the chosen method of printing digital files become more and more popular, this and the following generations will be learning what a "fine print" looks like from these forms of expression. In other words, the younger generations wont be looking at PAul Caponigro, Michale Kenna etc, and saying to themselves "I wish I could do this" they will be looking at whoever the next hot photographer is printing digital files and saying those same words.

So, as heart warming as the sentiments were, the darkroom is doomed and will become the province of the "alt" printer who will be teaching workshop, much like wet plate workshop are being taught today.