I think I am in love...

**lee\c** · 28-Jul-2006, 21:32

Originally Posted by Michael Kadillak

It is probably time for the moderators to look carefully at this most unfortunate (but completely expected) sequence of events and do the right thing.

We do not need this continuous diatribe of sniping at Sandy by Jay. And if you look at the history of this it is by no means a random event. it happens every time that Sandy posts. It adds nothing to the forum in any way shape or form. Just makes me nausious that someone would continue to feel that they cannot just LET IT GO and get on with their life.

If you cannot adhere to the forum guidlines, stay the course and be respectful at all times then the guilty parties should get a no post penalty. That would solve the problem.

Cheers!

Agreed

lee\c

**Jay DeFehr** · 28-Jul-2006, 21:42

Did you tell any of those folks that your know virtually nothing about chemistry, even at the most elementary stage, and that your entire knowledge of developer formulae was acquired by parasitic leeching off others for your knowledge?

So nasty for a person of such integrity and decorum. The high road just too high for you? What is your chemistry background again? Unlike yourself, I've never pretended to be anything but what I am. I am not a chemist and have relied on what I've been able to read in books and on the web for enough understanding of basic chemistry to formulate my developers. This is not news to anyone who has been paying attention, and I've certainly never claimed otherwise, and I've never claimed credit for others' work. If only you could say the same. Your developers are becoming more and more like mine every day; it must really irk you to follow in my footsteps. Your childish tantrums and ultimatum to the moderators is hypocritical and revealing. You think your such a fount of knowledge that you can threaten to leave when disgeed with, and the moderators will tremble at the thought and banish any dissenters. I think this would be a far better place without you. Anyone who can read can see that you're the one calling names and crying like a spoiled brat because you've been exposed for what you are. I hope the moderators take your advice and send you packing, and you and Kadillak can live happily ever after.

Jay

**Jorge Gasteazoro** · 28-Jul-2006, 21:53

I am not taking sides, my only concern is that if that one member demands that another one be banned, when is it going to end? And why should you or anybody in this forum place the moderators in the position of having to choose.

For example, you and I have both participated in flame wars with Simmons, what if Simmons writes to QT and tells him "Look, I am the publisher of a respected LF magazine, I have been publishing it for many years and I think I deserve the respect my knowledge and experience are due, if Jorge and Sandy are not banned I will not come back to the forum!" Granted, Simmons "gives away" little knowledge, but in essence this would be the same position you are taking. Why force the moderators to choose who is more "valuable" when with two simple clicks and a few key strokes you can ignore the guy you dislike and move on?

In the end, and with all due respect to you, if you let someone else dictate what forums you are going to visit, then IMO you are the one who is being foolish, in the end, the other guy "ran" you out...no?

PS. Since you mentioned, I have been banned from APUG so I a sure I will never see you there in the future, but you are welcome to send me a PM when you come back to Mexico and I will gladly meet you in Oaxaca or any other place.

Originally Posted by sanking

Hi Jorge,

It is not in a huff that I leave. To the contrary, I have made my position very clear to QT and the moderators, from several weeks ago, and I don't see QT or any of the moderators stepping up to the plate to stop the abuse.

Bottom line for me is this this. Persons with real knowledge should not give it away to forums that do not respect, value and protect their contributions. And respect from the forum adminstrators does not mean just sitting back and allowing nasty exchanges.

On APUG, yes, we get disciplined, but in the end Sean is a person of integrity and cuts through the BS. Hope to see you back there, and if not, in Oaxaca or Queretaro, or somewhere else in Miexico.

Best,

Sandy

**sanking** · 29-Jul-2006, 11:00

Originally Posted by Jorge Gasteazoro

In the end, and with all due respect to you, if you let someone else dictate what forums you are going to visit, then IMO you are the one who is being foolish, in the end, the other guy "ran" you out...no?

One way to look at this is that the thread has drawn attention to just how good the Pyrocat-MC formula really is. It is simply an outstanding developr: low B+F, very high intensity stain in the highlights, high acutance, and it delivers full emulsion speed. It also shares with Pyrocat-HD the characteristic of a very great difference between stain density as read in Blue mode density and in UV mode, which makes both of these developers so good for dual purpose negatives, i.e that can be used with both silver and Pt./Pd. And the difference between Visual reading and UV reading is greater by far than any other pyrocatechin based developer. In fact, the difference is actuall greater than what my files on hand show for pyrogallol based developers. For example, just including Step 1 and Step 21 densities, the reading for a negative that received 10 minutes of development in rotary processing shows V = 0.8 (Step1) and 1.72 (Step 21), B = .10 - 2.08, and UV = .31 - 2.87. And this is a film that does not develop as much stain as some.

So if you using any other pyro staining developer, either one of mine or another one, you might really want to consider trying Pyrocat-MC and see how it compares.

Sandy

**Jay DeFehr** · 29-Jul-2006, 18:35

Gainer's developer is very good; no argument there. It's not quite as sharp or easy to mix as Hypercat, but very good, and I would expect no less from Pat.

Jay

**Michael Kadillak** · 30-Jul-2006, 08:27

Originally Posted by Jay De Fehr

I think this would be a far better place without you.

Well, you have accomplished your narrow minded objective on behalf of all of the participants. Sandy is no longer an active participant on this forum. You can find him at APUG where Sean has taken the appropriate actions to eliminate this unwanted distraction.

**Jay DeFehr** · 30-Jul-2006, 09:02

I think Sandy and apug are a good fit, and I hope they're happy together.

Jay

**Gary Samson** · 30-Jul-2006, 13:27

Well, this turn of events is really a shame. Sandy's decision not to contribute to this forum any longer because of Jay De Fehr's behavior is completly understandable, but it is a great loss to the rest of us who have learned so much from Sandy's research and work. I will look forward to Sandy's posts on APUG and I hope this issue will be resolved shortly so that Mr. King will feel welcome here at the Large Format Forum again.

**Paul Fitzgerald** · 30-Jul-2006, 18:27

Hi there,

Personally I do not care but I do want to get something straight here:

It's perfectly acceptable for Sandy to bust Steve Simmons' stones, basically over PMK v PyrocatHD (both sold by PF).

It's perfectly acceptable for Sandy & Jorge to tag-team Steve.

It's perfectly acceptable to drop this bag of trash on Q.T. and the moderators.

It's NOT acceptable for Jay to call Sandy on Pyrocat MC.

Does anyone want to explain this? Please use small words because I'm really, truly stupid.