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Thread: I think I am in love...

  1. #11

    Re: I think I am in love...

    Ron,

    I've heard only a very few instances documented Xtol failures for a good long time. Most reports I have read seemed to involve sloppy, undocumented or questionable techniques in mixing or storage.

    For whatever its worth I've used Xtol for 6-7 years with no trouble at all, totalling around 20-25 5 liter packs.
    I am however extremely careful how I mix, handle and store all my chemicals.

    I think if you follow the package directions explicitly (and maybe add a few precautions) you will not have any problems. Start with good water (I suggest distilled water) mix at proper temperature, wait for the first part to dissolve completely, don't whip air into the solution and use full, airtight storage (glass bottles with no air space) and always use plenty of stock solution.

    I have several fresh packs of Xtol here now and no thoughts at all about changing to anything else.

  2. #12

    Join Date
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    Re: I think I am in love...

    Dear Group,

    I just returned from the mountains late this evening...

    I did not finish my scanning quest, since I knew a storm was brewing due to the heat in Southern Alberta, and the wind would be very quiet at some point in time as the eye of the storm passed by, so a photo opportunity just called and called. The mountains are about an hour away, so I could not resist. I had fun with a Black Bear, extremely curious cattle and a new fawn, while setting up my equipment. As a side note, if was not for Donald Hutton trying to call me, in the middle of nowhere, the fawn might have stayed, the Black bear took off over the hill, and the cattle thought it was dinner time. I did not answer the cell phone because it was several metres away at the time.

    That said, my developing process is rather tight, as always when developing film, but I do not become exremely concerned regarding my tap water's quality. I do concentrate though on temperature control, timing and absolute repeatability with all of my processing steps. The JOBO drum and my motorized base sure simplify matters...

    When I mix XTOL, I make sure the A_package is completely dissolved, before introducing the B_package, and I tend to mix the ingredients at a slightly higher temperature than Kodak suggests, just out of habit. There is always some debris at the bottom of the tub that does not get dissolved, and I usually strain these minute remnants out, prior to mixing the B_package.

    I do like quality control for repeatability, but I do not become extremely involved with tenths of a degree...

    XTOL failed me in the beginning, but mostly due to my ignorance with development time issues, and an exhausted fixer failed me too, creating the TMY blue and, or purple cast of death. A simple fresh re-fix did the job, and it was not because of a short prewash. I can only purchase XTOL in the 5L packages.

    During my experimental process I did notice though, XTOL opened up the midtones compared to D76, and I like that. XTOL also softens the extreme highlights. If any of you have ever flashed their silver paper in the darkroom, specifically in the highlight areas of the the paper, you know what I mean. The details in the hightlights go on forever. Photoshop handles this issue with ease, especially using layers.

    Today, while setting up an image, I listened to the cell phone ring as Donald tried to call me, and I watched the animals flee, but I wondered if I could use TMY set at 400, compared to my usual setting of 250. I thought of this, since I always make sure I expose for the shadows with Zone III, and I am so tuned as to how FP4 reacts with D76 and, or HC-110, that I wondered if my initial shadow detail with TMY could be a bit darker, since my initial reaction is that TMY leans toward Zone IV. My immediate thought was no I should not, since I can control the level of darkness in Photoshop and, or the darkroom. My XTOL exposure seems to be about 1/2 to 2/3's of a stop out, but not enough to make me change to a setting of 400. If this was a complete full stop, and I therefore would be able to use a shorter shutter speed, I might consider re-evaluating my development times, but I do not want too.

    Several years ago, Bruce Barnbaum told me, "If it's not there, it's not there..."

    Where, Bruce tried to politely tell me, I should expose for enough detail in the shadow areas, develop the film accordingly, and print the image down if I had too.

    Anyway, I digress...

    For the moment and for those of you that might be curious, my XTOL blend is set at 1:1, where 12.5 minutes at 20 Degrees Celcius (typ) is my current normal development time, where continuous cyclical agitation on my motorized drum base is the norm. My N+1 is set at 15.5 minutes, N+2 is set at 19.5 minutes, N+3 is set at 22.5 minutes, N-1 is set at 10.5 minutes, N-2 is set at 7.8 minutes, and N-3 is set at 6.5 minutes. I am about to embark on a compensating development time procedure for N-2 and N-3, since my historical useage of HC-110 and FP4 demand a different process at the extreme dilution, and their associated extended development times. I do not know what the dilutions and, or the development times will be just yet for XTOL, but I will before the end of the year. I might also find out that TMY does not require this type of extreme compensation development.

    XTOL at 1:3 sounds interesting, and TMY's acutance should improve, but I love the image tonality and sharpness I have in my images at the moment. I will try this blend later this year. Years ago I developed FP4 in D76 1:3, but eventually settled on the 1:1 blend, due to the restricted volumetric size of the JOBO 4X5 tank I had at the time. I must see how much liquid my drum can hold before the motor burns out.

    I should have a couple of images to post sometime tomorrow, regarding a previous request, once I finish developing today's exposures...

    What a great day it was.

    Be back shortly,


    jim k

  3. #13

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    Oct 2005
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    Re: I think I am in love...

    Jim,

    I hate the "flavor of the month" logic of film and developer choices BUT I would like to suggest you try a pack of Fuji Acros 100 in XTol 1:1.

    My prior film was TMax 100 in Kodak Tmax developer but I was frequently disappointed in the results. I tried numerous developers with it, including numerous Pyro formulations, but never got what I felt was an excellent scan on my drum scanner - 8,000 lines. Additionally, no film developer combo has match what I used to get from film and pyro 30 years ago.

    I've been testing the Acros 100 over the last couple of weeks in different developers and find the XTol works great with the Acros.

    I'll be doing more experiments this week at 1:2 and 1:3 dilution to see how it effects the scan, but in reality I could be quite happy with what I have at the moment in Acros and Xtol.

    I experiment on 120 roll film first to set general peramiters and scan values, then go to 4x5 sheet film. I can do so much more experimenting on the 120 film and learn the general effects of developer, dilution, time at a fraction of the cost of 4x5, then use what I learned on 120 to accelerate my learning curve for 4x5.

    Jack

  4. #14
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
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    Re: I think I am in love...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_1856
    Just wait until the first time your Xtol fails to work.
    I am. I've never had a failure. I've been using XTOL at 1:3 for what, four years now? Always mixed in steam distilled water and stored in old wine bottles under vacuum. I've used 8+ month old stock without a problem.

    Bruce Watson

  5. #15

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    Re: I think I am in love...

    Quote Originally Posted by jim kitchen
    I do not know what the dilutions and, or the development times will be just yet for XTOL, but I will before the end of the year. I might also find out that TMY does not require this type of extreme compensation development.
    Jim I just read about someone using divided XTOL as a compensating developer: Xtol 1:3, 50 seconds constant agitation; 50 seconds stand; drain; Xtol 1:5 with 15 seconds agitation every two minutes for 12 minutes.

    I intend to try variations of the above protocol and will post if anything comes of it.

  6. #16

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    Re: I think I am in love...

    Dear Group,

    The images I could post are very small, and do not exhibit the differences properly.

    If any one would like to see the images, I can send them to you via email. There are three images where the TMY and D76 1:1 image is on the right, and the TMY XTOL 1:1 image is on the left, within each image. The D76 images all show blocked Zone II areas on the film. I will park these images somewhere safe on my HD, until I forget what they are all about, and delete them.

    Images were taken about a minute apart, where my habit is to take a second image of the same scene in case I made an error in my processing. Such an old habit, but sometimes a fruitful one...

    As for Acros, I have not tried this film. I moved to TMY due to shutter speed issues and DOF with my 8X10. I will try it though, since I parked my supply of FP4+, Delta 100, and TMX 100.

    The compensating development times might be difficult for me since I use the JOBO drum, and therefore I would require a different process, such as trays. Maybe several development baths at a highly diluted rate might work in the JOBO with the motorized base. It will be fun to see if this works...

    Anyway, my excitement about the shadow areas might be just an issue with the film speed I am using, not necessarily the film and developer's ability, to open up the midtones.

    That said, if anyone would like to see the comparative images, I will send them to you.

    Thank you in advance,


    jim k

  7. #17

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    Re: I think I am in love...

    Jim, I do compensating dev with HC-110 in my Jobo 3006. I do 1 min constant agitation with 1:6.5 from stock (not syrup), drain, then add 2900 ml of 1:44 from stock. This I hand roll on the counter (it is too heavy for the roller base), 15 sec agitation every 1.5 min for a total of 12 min. Easily holds a 14 stop range. Because of the volume of soln I can still dev 6 sheets (10 actually) even at that dilution.

    I need only 40 ml of stock for soln A, and 65 ml for soln B.

  8. #18

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    Re: I think I am in love...

    My darkroom is an Xtol Free Zone. Why take a chance? Pyrocat-HD is the choice here.

    lee\c

  9. #19

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    Re: I think I am in love...

    Dear Group,

    Out of curiosity...

    What makes Pyrocat-HD so great and, or any Pyro developer, for that matter?

    Is it because it produces smoother tones, less grain, or is it just an exquisite elixer for a specific type of film?

    I guess I should try it for myself and find out...

    jim k

  10. #20

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    Re: I think I am in love...

    I love TMY developed in just about anything, but I develop mine in 510-Pyro and my Jobo ATL 2+, or semi-stand in tubes. Gorgeousness and gorgeosity. I don't think there's anything this film can't do. I don't think Xtol's keeping properties are any worse than any other single-aqueous stock solution when handled appropriately, but it's a far cry from a single TEA-based stock solution. If Xtol produced better results than 510-Pyro, I'd suffer the inconvenience gladly, but TMY and 510-Pyro seem to be perfectly matched, maybe because I used TMY as my primary test film while formulating 510-Pyro, but more likely, TMY brings out the best in any developer.

    Jay

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