Starting LF Photography with ULF Camera?

[N Dhananjay]

If you have done a good bit of reading and looking at prints and you feel like its going to rock your boat, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice not going for it. It might be worth it trying cheaper (relatively) methods (used camera and lenses etc) to confirm that it does rock your boat before actually going the whole nine yards. LF equipment (especially used) tends to hold its value reasonably well, so if you feel it does not work for you, you can sell everything without taking too much of a jab in the gut.

Having said that, I'd think a bit about the exact format you'd like to go with. The consensus seems to be that 4x5 and 5x7 are quite similar in terms of weight, bulk, travel etc. 8x10/7x17 is a quantum jump, and 11x14/8x20/12x20 is yet another quantum jump. There is an advantage to shotting the largest format compatible with what you want to do in the sense that you can always slap a reducing back on it to shoot smaller formats. But if the equipment gets in the way of what you are trying to do, its not worth it.

Good luck, DJ

[Scott Davis]

I'd add another voice to the call for reason - 11x14 is not the place to start with for large format. Just the logistics involved, and the style change you'll have to make, can be more than daunting, and very frustrating if your initial success rate is less than you'd like - with 11x14 film you're talking about $6 or so per exposure - that gets painful when you have to start tossing away that much money for each sub-your-own-standard image.

[paulr]

... and you've got lots and lots of money thats burning a hole in your pocket, its not a mistake ...

I think that's the biggest issue right there.

Any time you learn something new, you want to feel free to be playful, to experiment, to make a lot of mistakes. If you feel the burden of all those dollars-per-sheet weighing you down, then your progress will suffer.

But if that's not an issue, if the old addage, "film is cheap!" feels true to you, even when the film is big enough to use as a throw rug, then why not?

[alec4444]

Thanks, guys, this is really helpful. I AM really interested in the 11x14 format. The wider, panoramic formats (12x20, 7x17) intrigue me too, but for my first camera I think 11x14 is a nice shape. If a panorama is really needed I could always crop the contact sheet. My thought on the reducing backs was the same; if I find 11x14 too expensive I can always get an 8x10 back for a few hundred bucks. On the other hand, if I found 8x10 too small, it would cost a fortune to refit my gear to 11x14.

5x7 is still a possibility. I read an article somewhere (was it here) that spoke about why 5x7 is a nice format (cheaper film that's still available, can make reasonable contact prints, nice shape, etc.) My biggest fear is getting all this stuff and then discovering that what I was really after was something larger.

The portability factor is important to me too. An 11x14 rig + film holders + tripod will probably do me well here in NYC without a car (unless I get mugged). On a trip to Europe, I'd likely be in for a sore back. To fund this madness, I was contemplating selling my medium format equipment (6x6, BTW), which may not be too smart unless I'm willing to settle for 35mm on overseas excursions.

The camera I was looking at is indeed used, and I plan to look at it in person soon. It's also heavy (~30lbs). I would imagine it's going to take me a year or so to get all the needed accessories (tripod, lens, film holders, etc) from the used market. I'm not made of money.

Per Ron's suggestion, I think I will probably rent a LF camera or take a course at ICP first. I think that's a brilliant idea, and a fine way to learn about the LF world before plunking down major cash. I might snag the used 11x14 before then (haven't seen a lot of them around, and the resale value is probably good) but hold off on the other pieces.

Thanks again for all your help. It's nice to see all the viwepoints and pros and cons before jumping into something like this!

--Alec

[Scott Rosenberg]

this is about as advisable as learning cycling on the Rafensteiner Bergstrasse from Bolzano. i'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's not the route that will best develop your large format photography into something that is productive and enjoyable to you. if you had a very good mentor experienced in ULF your chances of success would be marginally better. consider the cost of materials you're going to burn through while figuring things out... i'll bet that sum alone would buy you a nice 4x5 starter kit. there's a reason folks start with 120, then 4x5, then 8x10, etc... the same reason we start out crawling.

what reason is there for jumping right into ULF? the market for used 4x5 gear is very healthy presently. if you buy used and then decide to move up, you'll be able to get out of your gear nearly what you paid for it - maybe more!

good luck in whatever direction you go!!

[Ron Marshall]

Alec, instead of rental, you could buy a used 4x5 as your travel camera, and go through the learning curve on it. After shooting forty or so sheets you will have a much better idea of what will work for you.

I once thought of going the 11x14 route, mainly because it permits a decent size contact. But I soon gave up the idea because I enjoy photographing away from the car, and because of the expense. I now contact print from 5x7, and scan 4x5 negs and print on an Epson 2200, with wonderful seven tone Piezographic inks. The results are different, but both are equally satisfying to me.

Here are a few trusted used equipment sources: KEH Camera Brokers, Midwest Photo Exchange, Badger Graphics (Some used equipment), Lens and Repro.

[David Vickery]

Well, I’d say do what you have to do to go ahead a get the 11x14, since that's what you say you want. I use 4x5, 8x10, 11x14, and 12x20 and the 11x14 is my favorite. I wish that I had been smart enough to get it when I first started with big cameras. There really is a big difference between using a 4x5 and an 11x14. Except for the weight of the film holders, the 11x14 is easier to use than the 4x5! Of course, my 11x14 is home made and is light enough for me to go hiking with it in an "ALICE" backpack so I don't have to stand around beside my car to use it. Many of the lenses that will cover the 8x10 will cover 11x14, including the excellent 14" C. Ektar. The only real consideration that I would caution about is the need for a vacuum frame or vacuum easel. Even when using thick glass I could not get the entire image sharp with 11x14 contact printing, until I started using a vacuum frame. The really big frames are cheap as printing companies go to digital processes, and they will allow you to easily move up to those larger formats as the desire arises (I'm working on a 20"x36"!).

[Bruce Watson]

I'm really super interested in getting into Large Format Photography and I've been doing a lot of reading about how people got into it. One common theme I've been seeing is the transition to the format. Everyone appears to have started with 35mm, then medium format (6x6, 6x7, etc) then 4x5, then 8x10, etc.

I for one went from 35mm to 5x4, and have no desire to go any bigger. The only reason I can see to go bigger is if you want to contact print. I have no desire for contact prints - I like to enlarge. And 5x4 lets me easily enlarge to 125 x 100 cm prints which are very sharp and very smooth.

One of the things I like to do is load up my pack and hike a while. Some of my day hikes are as long as 20 Km. My 5x4 outfit is as big as I can go and survive such hikes.

And the money I save on film and processing by sticking with a smaller size goes to a) more film, and b) big prints.

Clearly, YMMV. But 5x4 is the perfect fit for me -- so not everyone is constantly moving up in format size!

[Brian Vuillemenot]

I'm surprised no one has added in the depth of field disadvantage you put yourself in as format size goes up. You have to stop down more and more with a given angle of view as the camera size increase to get the same depth of field. For example, a normal lens for 4X5 is 150mm; for 8X10, 300mm; and for 11X14, 450mm. The 450mm lens has far less depth of field at a the same f stop than the 150! With many subjects, even with movements it may not be possible to get everything in focus. The more you stop down, the more detail you lose to diffraction. The consensus on this forum is that loss to diffraction is not very noticeable unless you are enlarging, and becomes apparent at about f45 or so.

This argument may or may not affect you choice, but is something else to consider.

[steve simmons]

May I suggest some reading

go to

www.viewcamera.com

and click on the Free Articles link. There will be several that might be helpful

get a copy of one of these books

User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone

Large Format nature Photography by Jack Dykinga - mostly about 4x5

Using the View Camera

try your local library.

These will help introduce large format to you.

steve simmons