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Thread: This is really alot like painting

  1. #1

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    This is really alot like painting

    Forgive my enthusiasm. I am an oil painter. Over time, I have shot most smaller formats. I have gone from digital (for action I use a canon eos 1ds), to 6x6 (Rollei 6008af film - fantastic sophisticated camera), to using a view camera.

    I just purchased a wonderful arca swiss classic. It is so surprising at how similar shooting large format (4x5 in my case)is to painting or drawing from life.

    It appears that many of the skill sets needed for painting are also used for LF. What a fantastic surprise.

    Anyhow the thing I really need to learn, is how to use this thing for figurative work. Not pretty naked women with fake boobs, but real living humans. At this point point, I can sketch a figure at about the same speed as set up for LF.

    I wish to avoid formalized posing. That is so boring to me. All those years of life drawing I guess. So here are my thoughts. Please give me your advice.

    I want to use my heavy duty motion picture tripod mounted on locking casters for moving around. I need to zone focus from various positions real fast. Suggestions on high speed zone focus would be really appreciated. Perhaps this doenst exist.

    I will have a confederate to speak with the subject so they pay less attention to the guy behind the cloth. Im gonna try and use flash as much as possible to avoid those really long exposures.

    What do you do to get an effective portrait within these limits?

    Thanks

    George

  2. #2

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    Re: This is really alot like painting

    Tie a string to the camera with measured, prefocused distances. Place tape on the rail and mark it for focusing distances with the lens you are using.

    Or, stand in the center of a series of concentric circles at measured inervals and have your subjects run around you

  3. #3
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    Re: This is really alot like painting

    Frank's string idea could work, but you need to attach the far end of the string to the subject's forehead with a push pin. Then, tell them they can move as they wish, as long as they keep the string taught.

    The big issue with LF portraits with a monorail is the shallow DOF afforded by the longer focal length lenses appropriate for the format. Even with small f-stops and relatively long exposures, a small amount of movement by the subject (or camera) will shift the placement of the plane of critical sharpness in relation to the subject.

    Think about the monorail sequence. You're going to compose, then focus, then close the lens, then insert the film holder, then remove the dark slide, then press the cable release, etc.. A fair number of seconds go by between the focus point and the exposure point. Thus, both camera and subject need to be still. Having your subject well-supported in a comfortable position goes a long way toward maintaining critical sharpness - even if you pump a lot of watt seconds at them when the flash goes off.

    A "press" or technical camera with a coupled rangefinder (e.g. a Graphic or a Technika) is better suited to the move-around style you're describing, but would still not be parallel to SLR-style shooting.

  4. #4

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    Franks idea, Ralphs thoughts and a gun.

    So how about this. Use Franks string theory(haha) and have the subject hold the string. Do all of the stuff Ralph has pointed out.

    From the dark cloth, pull out a pistol and tell the subject to "drop the string". Shutter release. Viola!!

    On another thought. Any way to use hyperfocal distance marked on the monorail for a quicker style of shooting? Of course little to no movements in that case.

    George

  5. #5

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    Re: This is really alot like painting

    Well it is really David Goldfarb's idea.

    You should probably try some more static portraits to start, just to understand what the range might be. What is "sharp" to one person is blurry to another, at least with DOF - it is not absolutely sharp or not sharp.

    If you like the formal qualities of using a longer lens for portraiture and also want to shoot with moving people, then good luck! Most of the photojourmalists used slightly wide lenses for a good reason - they worked. Of course a tight portrait with a 127mm Optar can be abit "round".

    You can do things to help your odds. Use a RB Graflex (like your Rollei on steroids) (do a search). Fast lenses, Auto diaphrams. AND strobes - ringlights and the sort.

    If you have enough strobe power you can shoot stopped down to f/32 and get most things in focus...

  6. #6

    Re: This is really alot like painting

    Hello George Kara,

    I also come from an oil painting background. Somewhat as you do, I view large format more like drawing than photography. The time of setting up and taking a shot is near what it would take me to draw a scene.

    On your moving or more dynamic people imaging approach, you might want to look into the work of Craig McDean. He is mostly a 4x5 using fashion and lifestyle shooter. I believe one of his reps is Art+Commerce out of NYC. He uses a wheeled studio stand, though mostly professional models.

    Given good directions on locations and area to move within, a good model should be able to maintain distance to the photographer. You could do this somewhat like some motion picture cameramen, with pre-planning several focus marks, perhaps even pre-marking the floor in specific distances. Then placing stops for focus on the camera would allow staying within that range. Probably take some practice, though I would think you could get a good working method fairly quickly.

    I would skip on the changing zone approach. Better to start with static readings in somewhat controlled conditions. Then adjust the aperture or shutter as needed while you move. Even outside, you should be able to stay with reading at least for a few shots in a row. Then have an assistant doing more readings as the light changes, and adjust your exposures according to the change in readings.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    A G Studio

  7. #7
    Jack Flesher's Avatar
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    Re: This is really alot like painting

    Wait until you move up to 8x10
    Jack Flesher

    www.getdpi.com

  8. #8

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    Re: This is really alot like painting

    Why not a Fotoman 45PS camera?

  9. #9

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    Re: This is really alot like painting

    How is this like oil painting to you? I don't share that feeling and I'm curious about your statement.

    Your are approaching this as one would a gesture drawing and that seems antithetical to me. The sort of situation you describe (i.e., mobile camera, "high speed zone focus," distracted model, etc.,) seems much more appropriate to smaller instruments. In fact, IMO it seems only appropriate to smaller instruments. Large format has always been, to me at least, very contemplative, methodical, slow in execution and requiring the full attention and direction of the model rather than a spontaneous and rapid exercise. Perhaps a bit like imprimatura/grisaille/glazing vs alla prima to use the painting metaphor.

    As an aside, I shudder every time I hear a photographer talking about "sketching with a 35mm" in order to come back later and reshoot with a large-format camera. You either see it or you don't IMO and you come prepared with the proper materials. OTOH, I may take a point-and-shoot snapshot to remember certain colors, gestures, or details for a later painting but, if I could photograph it, I certainly wouldn't have to produce a painting. While both media are selective, successful photography tends to be deliberately exclusive and factually descriptive, with painting deliberately synthetic and inclusive to me. Documentary vs imaginative. There is very little I see in common between them in terms of method.

    A large-format photographer over on APUG recently posted a series of photographs where he shot twelve sheets of film in ten minutes, apparently following a procedure similar to what you describe. While I generally enjoy this person's work, none of these recent rapidly shot images appeal to me since the shadows or lighting on the background are distracting and uncontrolled. He has set the space and the lighting, but has not optimized it for the specific moment/pose and it shows in the results. Others have commented similarly on these pictures for the same reasons.

    Perhaps at longer distances outdoors one could pull off such a thing with increased depth-of-field, wider lenses, and constant direct lighting, but you are inside and close to the model intending portraits, presumably with longer lenses which have reduced depth-of-field at any given f/stop. I'm not saying you can't be successful setting up a scenario where you can pay somewhat less attention to critical focus and have good lighting and sufficient depth-of-field. I am however very skeptical that the camera can be mobile and the model distracted.

    I'd be interested in seeing your results. And, where would we all be without experimentation and striving to do new things? Good luck and great light to you.

  10. #10

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    Re: This is really alot like painting

    I hate to be a nay-sayer (and, perhaps what I'm about to say only speaks to my relative inexperience at live-action portraiture with LF), but Lf cameras were pretty much designed for taking pictures of landscapes and naked, big-boobed women perched on rocks.

    I've never tried a "moving target" with a view camera because I think it would be simply too frustrating.

    I have had moderate success with LF action photography using a press camera and fast film (natural light). My SuperGraphic is well equipped with easy-to-use rangefinder and distance scales. As Ralph suggested, I too consider a press camera to be the correct tool for this type of photography if LF is really desired. Best of luck to you with whatever camera you choose to use!

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