Best INSURED international shipping

[Frank Petronio]

In the past year I have have sold eBay items to buyers in Greece, China PRC, and Italy which have never arrived, or so the customers say. I have used US Postal Service, usually Air Mail, and attempted to purchase insurance. Sometimes I can inusre a package and other times the clerk says I can't. I need to file a claim on the Greek one still, but I don't expect the customer to see any money.

The year before I had to claim through the Canadians and it took over 15 months and was a huge PITA.

Short of never selling outside the USA, what is the best reasonable and reliable way to ship cameras, lenses, and such and actually have real insurance coverage?

Is it just that Italy, China, and Greece has thieving postal workers (which I suspect) and Canada has a impossible bureauracy?

[Brian Ellis]

I don't know that even limiting sales to U.S. customers is a total solution. I sold a lens on ebay that was packaged by Mail Boxes Etc. and shipped by them using Fed Ex. The shutter was damaged in shipment so the buyer returned it to me and I refunded his money. I then filed a claim on the insurance with Fed Ex. Fed Ex first said I hadn't followed the correct procedure, I should have kept the money and let the buyer file the claim (right, and get my first ebay negative feedback). Then Fed Ex said my insurance wasn't through them, it was through Mail Boxes, Etc. So then I dealt with Mail Boxes Etc. They agreed it was their insurance I had bought, not Fed Ex, but said they couldn't pay me until they filed a claim with their insurance company and that claim had been paid. I didn't even know there were two different types of insurance much less that I had to wait for Mail Boxes Etc. to be paid before I'd get paid. This has been going on for about two months now with no end in sight.

[Alex Ragen]

... or maybe this is the inverse problem of buying stuff on Ebay from people in foreign countries who are out of the reach of US law enforcement and US lawyers, and take advantage of this to fleece naive US buyers looking for bargains. My suggestion is to use FedEx or similar and make sure the customer signs for the package. Or better yet, don't ship anywhere your sheriff can't arrest and your lawyer can't sue.

[Jim McD]

I can not recommend UPS. I bought an enlarger a few years ago, it was broken in transit (looked like it was dropped-the box was a mess) and I was never able to get reimbursed for repairs even though the seller bought extra insurance. It was a huge hassle.

[Ted Harris]

When I ship goods internationally for business (other than eBay sales and other than to Canada) I always use DHL or FedEx. DHL has become my favored shipper because their prices are slightly lower and, on those infrequent occasions when I have had to file an insurance claim,they have been easier to deal with. Please note that easier to deal with still means solid documentation of damage and still takes several months but I have not had a claim denied. BTW, it makes things a whole lot easier if you have both before and after photos of the damaged item. I don’t always have before images available, but in the two instances in the past year and a half where I had to file a claim I took extensive ‘after’ shots and explained them on the claim form.

International sales on eBay I handle a bit differently. I give the buyer the costs of shipping insured via US Mail and tell them the limits and problems and length of time involved in collecting on a claim if necessary. In short, although this is usually the cheapest method of shipment by a large amount, I try hard to discourage them and persuade them to use either DHL or FedEx; in this instance DHL is usually far superior to FedEx, especially for shipments to the EU. For some high value shipments I just refuse to ship by any carrier other than FedEx or DHL. The only reason I have not mentioned UPS is that 1) my experience with them has been that they are almost as much of a PITA on claims as the USPS and 2) their pricing doesn’t seem competitive at the moment. Regardless of the shipping method I clearly state the shipping options and caveats in my eBay ad.

[CP Goerz]

I have found that UPS and Fedex are truly lousy about shipping overseas and cost a fortune that most bidders don't want to pay for. The best way to go is the USPS EMS which although is the priciest version it is trackable and has built in insurance up to $100 I believe.

I'm in the middle of a similar situation right now and its a pain!

All the best,

CP Goerz.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've been using USPS Global Priority and packing extra carefully (double boxing when I can) and haven't had any problems yet shipping to various Asian and European countries.

[Dan Jolicoeur]

I sent a lens to Indonesia. Ups was one that would insure it for it's full value, unlike usps. I was a little worried, not having shipped anything overseas before, but it went off without a hitch. If you send it USPS they will only insure for a portion of the value depending on the destination country. I didn't have to fill out tons of paperwork for either, which usps wanted me to fill out a two page bill of laden. UPS prints it out automatically when you drop it off at a local depot. You just sign the bill of laden and pay them dearly.
Smooth transaction. I actually sent it there quicker than I could have sent something to California from the East coast.

[Henry Ambrose]

The last item I received damaged was by UPS. It took a personal visit by their representative and two months to pay the claim. When they paid they did NOT pay the cost of shipping which was substantial, only the invoiced value of the merchandise which they broke. So I was out the whole amount for two months and then finally out the $45.00 shipping fee I paid them for breaking my stuff. UPS is now the VERY last choice when I ship. When I buy something they are the first service I exclude if I have that choice.

The stuff I've sent overseas I've always shipped Fedex, insured for full value and I've not had any problems. The last item was physically small but expensive (a lens) and the total shipping and insurance bill to the EU was just under $90.00. Which seems way too high but it was secure. I just tell the buyer up-front that they are responsible for any costs or loss.

And anymore I just won't do business outside of the U.S. unless I "know" the person on some level. Certainly not just anyone who pops up on eBay. Its not that I distrust the person I am doing the transaction with anymore than if they are in Iowa, its more that eBay has out-reached existing financial and shipping/insurance rules and regulations. In most areas outside of the U.S. they offer no seller protection on expensive stuff if someone goes bad on a payment - you're just out the money. It costs a lot and takes a long time for things to ship and clear customs and the pursuit of problems can just become overwhelming - so I quit.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I run a mail order business for several years, and have been shipping around the world. I do less and less international anymore (save for USA, England, Austraila and some ofhe EU countries). Overall I think the situation has been growing worse and worse. There really is a hellva pile of fraudulent mail order out there, almost all with stolen CC numbers, so the shipping companies are just brutal to deal with insurance anymore as a result. I can understand thier point of view - I get at least one fraudulent order per day anymore on-line, sometimes more and i ask myself where the hell all these stolen CC numbers can come from? But these same companies seem to excell at saying "NO" even to the legit, honest people. Things I have learned, in no particular order;

- in some of the cases you describe, I think you may be the victim of fraud. I only ship overseas 3 day express anymore, and yes, the shipping cost is horrific. If you ship by mail or any service that takes a few days or a month or so, and you lay a claim - mail, UPS, etc, it can take up to 90 days to invistigate the claim. However, the customer will do a chargeback on the credit card (I'm a merchant ) and you have only 10 days to counter the chargeback for non-delivery of goods, but he shipping company takes 90 days to prove it either way - so you are out of luck. By the time Seems to be a trend I notice, so beware.

- be very careful inspecting exactly what kind of insurance you are actually buying. For example, insurance here in Canada on the mail only covers missing, not damaged shipments, regardless of who's fault the damage was/is. And yes, as a Canadian, I do think Canada has a impossible bureauracy.

- shipping from USA to Canada - small inexpensive items, mail is good. Small, semi-expnesive items (up to $1,000) use priority global express mail- EMS I think it is called. Larger items - such as a monorail, or something over $1,000, from USA to Canada, FedEx is the safest. UPS has been pretty brutal on some of my shipments in the past few years.

- documentation - get a digital camera and photograph *everything* showing the condition of the item you are shipping before hand. Get the current newspaper and shoot your item beside the date on the newspaper even, that way somebody cannot claim you took the picture say 2-3 years ago.

- packaging - always double box for large items if insuring for damage as well as loss. You can have a ton of packing, but no double box, no claim. Also, figure out what kind of packing you need, then double it. Pretend some bored employee is going to play soccer with your package...

- double lables - one outside, and one inside. I do my label the computer, then just hit print twice.

- Items I sell and ship personally - that is, a personal return address - seem to have a higher rates of disappearing than items shipped with a company return address, even though personal lables always laser printed.

- Items that are shipped by slower means, regardless of the carrier, do always seem to disappear more than items shipped by faster means.

- It may seem like superstition, but I never, ever ship on a Friday anymore, mail, FedEX or UPS, and some of my shipping problems seem to have gotten better - go figure that one.

- any item or package shipped to a business address as opposed to a residential address seems to ahve a much greater chance of arriving alive. Around the world, many people are not at home when a package arrives, so it's very easy for an item to sit on a shelf in a warehouse until claimed, or in a mailbox all day long, at which point, somebody can come along and swipe it on you. Once talked to a guy who had an expensive telescope disapper because UPS left the package - in plain sight - all day long on his front porch while he was at work.

- yeah, I know i am not supposed to do it, but it seems lower priced items do not "disappear" as much as expensive items do, so I often will put down value of an itme at $100 even if it's $500 because a $500 item does attract more attention of thieves, inside and outside the shipping company and/or mail

- make sure your buyer/customer is fully aware of his/her local import fees, udties, taxes, etc. I have litterally seen some countries that pile all these duties, fees, charges, etc, on top of the item, and as a result, their costs litterally double when they go to pick it up. Bottom line, if a lens that cost them $1,000 US will end up costing another $1,000 US (or equivalent in local curreny) in these addeed fees, I find that some of these buyers unprepared and/or angry at these extra costs will refuse an item, and then e-mail you that it never arrived.

Once an item or shipment is refused by a customer, it becomes a very prime target for theft, becasue it's much harder to track or trace - after all, the local customer waiting for it doesn't want it, he's claiming publically to you and all over the internet that it never arrived to begin with, nobody locally will complain if it does not turn up for delivery, so who's to know? I've been burnt this way before.

Anyhow, good luck, and see if any of these help at all

joe