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Thread: Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

  1. #1
    Ever learning, ever growing. Mark Carstens's Avatar
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    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion



    I hope to soon be the proud owner of an 8x10 setup. I've pretty much settled on buying a new Wehman, but am also considering the alternative of adding an 8x10 conversion kit to my Arca Swiss Discovery. If the decision were based purely on economics, then I'd sell the Discovery and buy the Wehman, done and done. However, it's not that simple. I'd still like to shoot 4x5, especially for color transparency or when I need a further reach with a longer lens. So I need to build this capability into my purchase.



    I understand the Wehman can be fitted with an 8x10/4x5 reducing back. Whereas with the Arca Swiss conversion kit, I'd opt to change out frames and bellows rather than add a reducing back. I am intimately familiar with how the Arca works, and already have 70cm of bellows and plenty of focus rail to handle it. I love the Discovery for the most part, and find in sturdy, reliable and easy to use. But, I have read a lot of good things from other landscape shooters about the Wehman, and feel the 30 day guarantee quells any fears I may have about jumping in with both feet.



    All this said, my inclination would be to go with the Wehman plus reducing back rather than the Arca Swiss conversion kit 8x10 setup on my Discovery, with 4x5 frame in the pack. My question is, in terms of packing and shooting (landscape images, mostly), what trade-offs am I missing here? Economics aside, which setup will likely serve me better in the field?



    Thanks in advance for your sage advice. I look forward to reading your responses.
    "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." ~ Samuel Beckett

  2. #2

    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    I have a Wehman 8x10 and I love it!

    Bruce Wehman is a great guy to work with.

    My 8x10 Wehman also has a 4x5 Graflock back and a 5x7 spring back.

    I supplied the 4x5 Graflock (got a new one eBay) to Bruce Wehman and he fabricated an adapter board for it that fits my 8x10.

    I also picked up a 5x7 spring back on eBay and Bruce fabricated an adapter board for it as well.

  3. #3

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    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    Reputation, weight, and packing size differences can be rationalized in favor either camera. But the most important issue is going to be usability and comfort in the field. A modern, precise monorail is going to be very different from a folding wooden camera.

    To my eye, the Arca will be easier to use -- the movements are wider, smoother, and probably tighter. The Wehman is going to be clunkier. However, the Wehman is also a more "rugged" camera that will be forgiving of bumps and bruises. If you are rough on your gear, having a working Wehman is far more usable than a broken Arca.

    Either will be a good choice. At the risk of being accused of promoting eBay auctions,* I have noticed some nice used Toyo-M 8x10 and Kodak Master View cameras with a nice range of accessories that have been discussed here as well. I especially like the 8x10 Toyo myself.

    *I do know anyone currently selling any large format cameras on eBay. I have no financial interest in any current eBay activity. Sworn under oath at http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/ on this 28th day of March, year of the Lord 2006 A. D., Saints preserve us.

  4. #4

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    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    As Tom indicates, there is no stock 4x5 back available for the Wehman. (otherwise I would already have one!)

    As Frank mentions, the Arca will be easier to use, once you are set up and level on the tripod. All the advantages for any flatbed camera occur in between shots: stowing, carrying, removing, setting up, tearing down.

    The Wehman has plenty of movements for typical landscapes; I've used mine with 110mm - 600. There are few typical landscapes that you can capture with an Arca that you couldn't also catch with W, though it might take 2-3 more minutes.

    It's smooth and hard exterior when folded up make it very easy to pack/unpack, etc., and pretty dang bombproof.

    Have you ever used a flatbed? If not, bear in mind that there will be a learning curve, and you will undoubtedly miss certain features/qualities of the Arca. The learning will be of short duration, however the missing...

    I occasionally shoot with a 4x5 monorail in the field (Gowland), but can't really see myself struggling with an 8x10 monorail. If there are any 8x10 monorail landscapers out there, please chime in with why.

  5. #5

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    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    I have been using an older Arca monorail. Previously, I've used all kinds of 4x5s, monorails and folding, as well as a 7x17 and several different 8x10 monorails. And a Deardorf.

    The old and new Arca monorails are very light and compact as you can get both standards on a short section of rail. This packs up to a comparable size and weight as most folding 8x10 cameras. The rail bracket gets carried separately, which is no hardship. I do use a ground glass protector. I don't think the weight is any more than any mainstream folding camera except for some ultralighs like the Toho, Gowland, Tachi, or Phillips.

    Frankly, the only downside I see with the Arca is that sand and dirt can foul the movements worse than on the wider, more forgiving movements of the Wehman. The benefit is the Arca is a tighter, smoother camera provided you use more care to keep it clean (not anal, just free of gunk) than the Wehman.

  6. #6
    Scott Rosenberg's Avatar
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    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    mark,

    i've never used the wehman, but, as you know, have extensive experience with the AS 8x10 format kit. one thing i quickly realized, and ultimately led me to purchasing the kit, was that there is a big difference between shooting with a 4x5 reduction back on an 8x10 camera and shooting with the 8x10 format kit. if you go the reduction back route, then every time you go out to shoot, even when you're just going to shoot 4x5, you're going to have deal with an 8x10 sized camera (and pack and tripod). i didn't want to carry around an 8x10 all the time, so i went the AS format kit route, which gives me the flexibility to carry a 4x5 camera when i'm shooting that format, or an 8x10 camera when i'm shooting the larger format. it might sound trivial, but shooting with the 8x10, for me at least, requires a much larger backpack and my heaviest tripod. i didn't want to have to deal with all that if i was only going out to shoot 4x5. the format kit really gives you two distinct cameras, a reduction back simply allows you to use 4x5 film in an 8x10 sized camera. this might not be important to everyone, but i backpack a lot, and so it was a huge consideration for me. furthermore, since i didn't know if i was going to take to the larger format, the AS kit allowed me to go back to 4x5 without buying a whole new rig.

  7. #7

    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    In LF, I use 4x5 and 8x10. I have two separate cameras, and I don't think it's a real good idea to attempt to have one camera that doubles for both formats.

    The advantage of 4x5 is that the equipment is incredibly compact and light compared to 8x10. Mostly the camera and filmholders. If I were to combine my formats, I'd end up with one extra tiny lens (a 90mm Wolly for 4x5), but 6 more filmholders and either an extra set of format frames or the Toho reducing filmholder (an 8x10 filmholder that takes a 4x5 filmholder). Lots more stuff to pack and carry for no real advantage. (Woohoo! I can shoot smaller film!)

    Plus, if one camera breaks, you might have no cameras. With my setup, if my 8x10 is out of commission, I have a (crappy) 4x5 to use. Or, if my 4x5 is broken (as it was for about 2 years until last week), I can shoot 8x10.

    As far as using an 8x10 monorail in the field, there are a several folks on the board who do. The Arca and the Gowland are light, and their main disadvantage is in set up time if you've disassembled them for packing. I think the bigger issue is that you gain less from a monorail in 8x10 than you do in 4x5. The movements are generally not much more generous than the flatbeds, no 8x10 cameras are limited in the use of the common wideangle lenses, and in 8x10 flatbeds often have more generous maximum extensions than stock monorails.

  8. #8

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    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    A small clarification: Tohos and Gowlands are both monorails. Both are very light, and more packable than many monorails. Lighter than most flatbeds, even.

    Contrary to Scott, I carry my 8x10 Wehman in the same pack that I bought to carry my 4x5 Walker (also a flatbed), an f.64 BP Large Backpack. It is not particularly huge, and not even the largest of the f.64 line. And currently I am using the same tripod, though I have been considering acquiring something bigger ever since I got a 600mm lens. At least partly this is due to my minimalist nature: I have travelled with a 4x5 (Walker) in a shoulder bag. I don't know if an Arca 8x10 would fit in my pack, but if I had one, I'd give it the ol' college try...

  9. #9

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    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    I would just stay for the 4x5 with the Arca and buy the Wehmann as aditional 8x10 camera.
    If something is defectiv with the Arca then you can send it for repair and you still have the Wehmann and vica versa!
    I heard only good things about the Wehmann I owned a Arca but had focus shift problems and sold it!
    Its better to have to systems then only one in my opinion!

  10. #10

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    Wehman vs. Arca Swiss F-line Conversion

    CXC said: "I don't know if an Arca 8x10 would fit in my pack"

    My 8x10 arca f-line fits in a Tenba backpack so I would assume it would fit in the F64. I store the camera on a 6" rail. I use a 30cm rail on a 40cm extension bracket that I leave on the tripod. Setup is quick since I can take the whole camera and slide it on the extension bracket. Everything i need fits in the backpack. I use the backup for longer distances and storage.

    I also can walk with the camera/lens mounted on the tripod. I use an MC photographic sack that fits over the camera to protect the camera and bellows when walking and when the camera is stored in the backpack. I carry holders, lenses, etc. in a crumpler bag. The backpack gets left in the car. The total system with gitzo cf tripod and arca b1 head is manageable, quick to setup, and light.

    I agree with John that having 2 seperate cameras (4x5 and 8x10) is preferable. I originally bought a 4x5 f-line system. I added parts for the 8x10. You can start with the change kit and eventually add enough for 2 seperate cameras. You can do this with an arca without having to "rob the bank." One way is to buy function carriers from older arca systems. Older function carriers are fully compatible with your discovery system. Add a front standard and rails and you have a second camera.

    You will probably be happy with either choice (arca or wehman). I have seen a wehman up-close and it is light, rigid, and looks versatile.

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