For sale ad quoting from a popular website

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Kerry,

" I don't mind people placing a link to the applicable pages on my web site, "

I was just notified by ebay that an auction I bid on was pulled and voided. The reason it was pulled within hours was that it had 'hot-links' in it, you cannot use 'hot-links' outside of ebay or java-script in an ebay auction page. It's not a public website, it's an auction page.

Sorry about all the fuss and bother but I think ebay is now #2 only to Wal-Mart in size so they will do whatever they want to. Just think, it started in someone's garage selling used CDs.

Welcome to the 21st century.

[Graham Patterson]

I have had a few instances of this with my Mamiya TLR pages. It is one of the reasons I include explicit wording about what I consider reasonable, *and* a disclaimer that any commercial transaction citing my web pages where I am neither the seller or purchaser is nothing to do with me. Realistically I cannot police every auction. Neither, I suspect, can Kerry. I have found that a firm but polite 'cease and desist' works with private sellers. But it is effectively after the fact.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

hermit - Depending on how disgruntled you are, contact an attorney of file a complaint against the 'auction site'. They have deep pockets and didn't act. That may be a worse offense than the original. You have the automated emails as evidence.

I'm not disgruntled enough at this point to start throwing money at an attorney. I'm sure eBay with their deep pockets has several talented attorneys under their employ. In fact, I would not be surprised to learn that those canned email responses were scrutinized by their legal staff to insure they do and say the absolute minimum required to avoid getting sued.

Frank - Anytime you want to screw up the other guy's auction, just bid $1,000,001. They'll kill the auction for you.

A correction - it's a fixed price listing with "Buy It Now!" and "Pay Immediately" enabled. Sorry, no fun allowed.

Matthew - Uh... contact the seller directly?

I've actually done that a couple times in the past, and most individual sellers change their listing when requested. This time, I thought I'd go the official route as the seller seemed like a dealer (eBay Power Seller complete with eBay Seller's Store). Obviously, that tack failed. So, maybe I should try contacting the seller directly using "ask the seller a question".

Paul - I was just notified by ebay that an auction I bid on was pulled and voided. The reason it was pulled within hours was that it had 'hot-links' in it, you cannot use 'hot-links' outside of ebay or java-script in an ebay auction page. It's not a public website, it's an auction page.

The seller got around this eBay rule by posting the complete URL to my web page, and not an actual hot link. Otherwise, I could have their listing pulled, not for violating my copyright, but by violating eBay's policy against sending viewer's to sites that don't make money for eBay.

Graham - Realistically I cannot police every auction. Neither, I suspect, can Kerry. I have found that a firm but polite 'cease and desist' works with private sellers. But it is effectively after the fact.

It's worth a try. But given eBay's inaction on this matter, I don't really expect the seller to comply with my request. Who knows, maybe they really don't know what they are doing is illegal.

Thanks to all who have responded. After eBay's lack of action on this issue, I had pretty much written it off. Getting them to actually do anything before the auction ends seems unlikely. The wheels of bureaucracy move slowly and eBay has become a HUGE bureaucracy.

Kerry

[QT Luong]

In general, I have found that demanding payment is the best way to get someone to stop using your copyrighted materials. One or two years ago, someone informed me that a person was using repeatedly some of my images to sell real estate on ebay. I just sent them by surface mail a bill for the price I would normally charge for that use, accompanied by threatening language (each of my 13,000 online images is registered). They promptly paid. In a second similar case, the offender apologized profusely and withdrew immediatly the image. Since this was a first offense, I didn't try to recover from him. Since you have a record of being paid by the word for your writting, maybe you can just bill him at relevant rates.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

OK, I did some more poking around on the eBay web site. Evidently, their inaction on this matter was due to the fact that I didn't use the proper copyright infringement reporting mechanism. Rather than just send in a compaint through their online "help" screens, you have to fill out the proper form, sign it (UNDER PENATLY OF PERJURY - emphasis their's) and fax it to them. This falls under their VeRO (Verified Rights Owner) program and the form can be found here.

I filled out the form and faxed it to them about 15 minutes ago. The offending listing ends in 3 days 7+ hours. Let's see if they act on the faxed complaint any faster than they did my previous electronically submitted complaint.

I want to thank Marko for starting this discussion and all who responded. After the previous run around, I had given up on getting the infringing listing removed. Thanks to everyone's help and encouragement, I decided to give it one more try. If not for this discussion, I would not have found eBay's VeRO "Notice of Claimed Infringement" form. Their site has become so cumbersome to navigate. Once you find what you need, it all seems simple. The problem is finding what you are actually looking for on their web site. I had originally followed the links for reporting"Item Description and Picture Theft", unaware of what VeRO meant and the proper steps for reporting the infringing listing. Now it all seems obvious. Hopefully, this discussion will benefit others in the future.

As soon as I hear back from them, I'll let everyone know how eBay reponds now that I have reported the infringement through proper channels.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Tuan - Since you have a record of being paid by the word for your writting, maybe you can just bill him at relevant rates.

If I'm going to make this worth my while, I need to either up my word rate, or beef up the descriptions on my web site.

Now, if someone would include my entire Toho review in their auction listing (10,331 words and 30 photos) we'd be talking some serious cash.

Seriously, the articles on my web site were placed there to help others, not make money. What I don't like is when other's try to use the content of my web site to turn a profit. That was not my intent, and attempting to do so offends me and violates my intended purpose. I do get paid for articles I have published in magazines, but I also believe and giving back a little to the community. That's why I have always supported Tuan and those who run this community. They have given a lot more than I have. The info on my web site (sorely in need of an update, but I never seem to find the time) and any info I share though this forum are my little way of saying "thanks".

Kerry

[Hiro]

I was both the reporter and the victim of the infringement.

Kerry--I just asked the seller about the illegal use of a copyrighted material. Also, I think it's a good idea to let the seller know it from yourself (for the record) as well as the fact that you've filed a formal complaint with eBay. If the efforts fail, there are hundreds of participants in this forum according to the roll call...

[Graeme Hird]

I like Hiro's solution. Kerry, do we have permission (or more correctly, an endorsement) from you to bombard him with questions?

Cheers,
Graeme

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Grame - like Hiro's solution. Kerry, do we have permission (or more correctly, an endorsement) from you to bombard him with questions?

While I appreciate the offers of assistance, now that I've figured out the proper way to file an infringement complaint with eBay, I'd prefer to give them a chance to rectify the situation.

And, while it's a blatant infringement of my copyright, as I have not contacted the seller directly, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (for now).

So, before anyone does anything malicious (no matter how well intentioned), let's give this a chance to sort itself out through "official channels".

Kerry

[Frank Petronio]

Just purchase it and stiff them. Don't be so afraid of maintaining 100% positive feedback - the feedback section allows you to be quite accurate (so long as you are concise.)

Most crooks won't leave you negative feedback anyway, even if you lambast them.

eBay's feedback was meant to rat out the baddies but everyone is so chicken to call a spade a spade... give me the URL in a usable form and I'll do it. I doubt having 99.7% verus 99.6% positive feedback really makes one lick of difference to a customer.

Sometimes a chainsaw works better than a lawyer.