Gitzo G1570 Questions

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I just received a NOS (new, old stock) G1570 tripod head I purchased on eBay and have a couple questions. My goal is to use this head with my 7x17 camera once I get it done.

First question - this particular head is quite stiff when trying to adjust it side to side. It is way stiffer in this direction than in the fore/aft tilt and panning motions. Is this something that will loosen up with use. Or, is it something I can adjust or lubricate? There is a little circular plastic "hubcap" on the front of the head that looks like it can possibly be removed to lubritcate this joint and/or possibly adjust the tension. Has anybody tried this (hopefully with successful results)?

At exacty 3.5 lbs, this head isn't exactly lightweight. Still, I am asking it to support a 12 lb. camera with a 2 lb. film holder and lenses ranging from 1 to possibly 3+ lbs. I've noticed that the magnesium version of this head, the G1570M at 2.9 lbs. is 0.6 lb. lighter. Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison of the older G1570 and the current G1570M heads? I'm wondering if the lighter magnesium version is really as sturdy as the older, heavier model. I do have a G1370M magnesium model (2.0 lbs.). The G1570 is obviously WAY sturdier, but I attribute most of that extra rigidity to the larger size and weight, not necessarily the materials.

Thanks,
Kerry

[CXC]

My 1270 is also way stiffer on the 3rd axis, that is the rightmost knob looking from behind. I also got it used, and old, off eBay, so I assume it is as loose as it will get through use.

Movement on the z-axis is particularly awkward, exacerbated by the short arm on that knob. Implicitly I always assumed the extra stiffness was a feature, not a bug...

[Oren Grad]

Kerry, my G1370 is stiff in exactly the same way, and no, it hasn't loosened up even after maybe seven or eight years of intermittent use. It's difficult to adjust on that axis with much finesse.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I have the G1570M, and it is a little on the stiff side, but it's made for a big camera, so judge it by how it handles with the camera attached. When I have the 11x14" camera or for that matter my Canon F-1N and 600/4.5 on it, I use the handles to adjust the tension, but the camera becomes the lever, and a little extra resistance is not a bad thing.

If you want fine adjustment, you might consider adding a Bogen leveling base under the head or a Levelhead on top (particularly if the camera has an Arca-Swiss type plate, because most A-S style clamps don't work on a platform that large unless they are the type with a cam lever, which doesn't apply as much clamping force as a screw, and the Levelhead has its own built-in screw-locking A-S style clamp).

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. Actually, just spending a few minutes working it back and forth has helped loosen it up a bit. Probably stiff from a bit of dried grease (this is an older model head that had sat in its box without being used for several years). It is still stiffer side-to-side than in the other two directions, but as David points out, it is easier to move using using two hands gripping the sides of the camera than with that piddly little lever. It's still not quite as smooth as my G1370M (which, if anything is a little "grabby" in the fore/aft direction, but easier to deal with thanks to the extra long lever).

BTW, I am orienting these heads with the LONG handle facing back - as this seems the most logical for use with a large format camera - especially a monorail like my ARCA-SWISS. Just looking at these heads, I suspect some (perhaps many) 35mm, digital and medium format users use the LONG lever for side-to-side tilts. Otherwise, it is not possible to flop the camera over for vertical shots with these formats (unless you're using a super telephoto lens with a rotating tripod collar).

David G. - If you want fine adjustment, you might consider adding a Bogen leveling base under the head or a Levelhead on top (particularly if the camera has an Arca-Swiss type plate, because most A-S style clamps don't work on a platform that large unless they are the type with a cam lever, which doesn't apply as much clamping force as a screw, and the Levelhead has its own built-in screw-locking A-S style clamp).

As much as I like fine adjustments (I've been spoiled using my Bogen/Manfrotto geared head with the 4x5), I'm not prepared to add another 2 lbs. (and $500) on top of an already heavy head for the convenience of a Levelhead. And while it does have an ARCA-SWISS compatible clamp, the surface area of the clamp is pretty small. The 7x17 camera I am making (like my 4x10) is based on an ARCA-SWISS monorail. So, I was indeed planning to use an ARCA compatible clamp - likely two short to medium size clamps (one front and one rear), or perhaps one very long clamp with multiple mounting screws. One reason I chose this head was the large size (long length, in particular) of the top platform. I figured the more surface area in contact with the rail, the better. I have tested my small (60mm long) RRS screw driven clamp on the G1570 head and the stem is long enough and the knob I use small enough in diameter at its base that it works just fine with the G1570 top platform.

Another option is to just drill and tap a couple more 3/8" mounting holes on the bottom of my ARCA-SWISS extension bracket , semi-permanently mount it to the top of the head using three or four bolts, and let it serve a dual purpose as both an extra long quick release clamp and extension rail. Not the most compact solution, but it would be very sturdy and not add any more weight to the total amount I'd be carrying.

Kerry

[Ole Dyre Hesledalen]

Kerry.

-I have both a G1570 and a G1570M. My experience regarding the difference between the two has led me to use the rounder, more ergonomically pleasant handles from the newer version on the older head.
The G1570 (I believe there was someting called a 570 or similar even earlier that I'm not familiar with) has a different casting in regards to the top part/platform; this particular construction seems to be more rigid than the M-version in use. The weight difference doesn't matter much to me, as my Sinar P 8"x10" with lens etc. is sitting on top of everything here...

I must admit, though, that even with the Sinar baseplate with two railclamps the whole setup is somewhat flimsy;
for 8"x10" monorail work I have become very attracted to Manfrotto's largest -and heaviest and most expensive- geared offering. I believe it's called the 400.
Until I can get one of those, I'm planning to modify the 1570 platform and the Sinar baseplate to accept two screws holding them together. This seems to be the best viable option for keeping this somewhat rigid.
(My work in this format is almost exclusively natural light portraiture, so my demands on rigidity might not apply to your work. I prefer to work quickly without having to wait several seconds for the vibration created from the assistant slapping the holder in to subside.)

I disassembled and cleaned my old 1570 and lubed it up with aluminium paste which in my experience will not turn to wax over time. This helped vastly on the movements, but remember that you probably want a little resistance -as long as it is somewhat smooth- when you put a heavy camera on top of this.

Regards,

Ole Dyre Hesledalen

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Ole,

Thanks for the input and your experiences with the G1570 vs. G1570M. While my initial plan was to get the current G1570M, I stumbled across a good deal on this NOS G1570 and figured it was worth a try. I do also like the more ergonomic feel of the newer rubber grip spherical knobs better than the old hard plastic paddles. My G1370M has the newer style handles and the fore/aft tilt and pan levers fit the G1570, but the side-to-side lever does not. I may eventually to order a set of G1570M replacement handles for use with my G1570. On the other hand, the hard plastic paddles may be eaier to operate with gloves on. I'll try them for a while under real-world conditions before I decide.

I'll also wait until I try the G1570 head with my 7x17 for a while before I attempt to open it up and lubricate it. While it feels a bit stiff without a camera on it, it may end up being "just right" for my 12 lb. 7x17.

I'll also probably drill some more mounting holes in my ARCA-SWISS extension bracket and bolt it securely to the G1570 platform with three or four 3/8" mounting screws. I think this will give the most rigid connection and I won't have the added weight/expense of a QR clamp or two. I'm using an older style 16" (400mm) ARCA-SWISS extension bracket that clamps the rails from the side with four knobs. So, if I leave it mounted on the tripod head, it acts like a 16" long QR clamp. Normally, that would see a bit too bulky to carry about, but with the huge top platform and long fore/aft handle of the G1570, it will hardly be noticed. I will be using this extension bracket with a current ARCA-SWISS rails of 400mm and 150mm length. I can just leave the 400mm rail section on the tripod along with the matching 400mm extension bracket. The rest of the camera (front and rear standards on the short 150mm rail section) will be stowed in the pack for transport. This combination (400mm extension rail + 400mm rail + 150mm rail) will easily provide enough extension to handle my longest lens (600mm Fujinon-C) and could probably handle a 30" lens if I ever decide get one. If not, I can just substitute a longer rail section (maybe 250mm) for the short 150mm rail.

All-in-all, depending on which 8x10 Sinar you have, my 7x17 may actually be lighter. I will also mostly be using compact lighweight lenses (240mm Computar, 305mm G Claron, 450mm Fujinon C or 450mm Nikkor M and 600mm Fujinon C). I'll also be using it for landscape photography (hence the concern about the weight of all the bits and pieces). So, I'll usually be able to allow a few seconds for vibrations to die down after inseting the holder - however, I will also have wind to deal with.

For now, I plan to use my Gitzo 1325 legs with the G1570 head. This is the biggest, sturdiest tripod I own and actually I don't think the legs are the weakest part of the system (that seems to be the head/rail interface that will be addressed as described above). Anybody else using any flavor of the G1570/G1570M with a 1325 leg set and a 12lb. camera? If so, do you find it adaquate for your needs? I'll give mine a try, but if it just isn't up to the task, I'll look for some sturdier (and heavier) legs.

Kerry

[Frank Petronio]

While the 3-series tripod may work, you should try a test against a really heavy-duty tripod to find your limit. I noticed a difference shooting architecture with a 4x5 between a 3 and 5 series, although I'm talking about metal versions, so their weight helped steady things more than CF.

I've been using the 3 with a light 8x10 which works fine in calm weather, but really isn't that secure feeling in snow or funky conditions. But the camera catches a lot of wind too, so it may be trying to sail the lighter tripod away.

What, no folding 600mm rail system? Why'd you cheap out? ;-)

[Scott Davis]

Kerry- I have a 14 lb Calumet C-1 8x10 that I use with a Gitzo 1420 series aluminum legs (abt 8.5 lbs) and the 1570M head (2.5 lbs), without center column. This is a wonderfully stable combination. My problem with the outfit is the tripod attachment platform of the C-1. The platform is rather open at the bottom, and so the camera still wiggles more than I'd like. This is no fault of the tripod head. To eliminate this problem I'd have to get a Majestic tripod head with a 6"x7" or larger mounting platform. I think you may run into the same problem I am having if you are using an Arca-Swiss type connector for your camera to the tripod head. There will be too little camera-base to tripod-head surface contact,and so the camera will vibrate on its own. You could mount the tripod in hurricane force winds, and it wouldn't move, but the camera would be all over the place.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Frank - While the 3-series tripod may work, you should try a test against a really heavy-duty tripod to find your limit. I noticed a difference shooting architecture with a 4x5 between a 3 and 5 series, although I'm talking about metal versions, so their weight helped steady things more than CF.

I actually think the 1325 is sufficiently rigid for the load, but the same lack of mass that makes it a joy to carry may have a negative impact on stability in windy conditions. For that, I may resort to the hanging bag o' rocks method of adding ballast, or simply the teathered cord pulled taut under my boot trick to help "ground" the tripod.

I've been using the 3 with a light 8x10 which works fine in calm weather, but really isn't that secure feeling in snow or funky conditions.

I'm thinking about adding a set of the Markins titanium spikes to my 1325 legs. They are spendy, but should provide better footing on many surfaces encountered in the field.

But the camera catches a lot of wind too, so it may be trying to sail the lighter tripod away.

That's where the bag o' rocks or teathered cord come in handy.

What, no folding 600mm rail system? Why'd you cheap out? ;-)

Yes, I am cheap (I prefer "frugal"). My 7x17 will be assembled from bits I already own, a few custom made parts and some odds and ends picked up off eBay. The total expenditure on the camera (not counting parts shared with the for my 4x5 and 4x10 cameras I already own) will be less about 1/4 the cost of a new 7x17 and less than halfthe cost of a beat up old Korona. Of course, the holders aren't cheap and I've already spent more pre-ordering film that I will on the camera. And then there's the lenses...

That aside, I actually prefer the ARCA telescoping rails over the folding ones for my needs. I can see why people who shoot with the little 6x19 ARCA or the 4x5 Field model with wide angle lenses might prefer the 300mm folding rail, but I like to use longer lenses (and on the 7x17 a 240mm is an ultrawide). I find the telescoping rails handle long lenses better, are faster to use and in this case, result in a more transportable system. Keep in mind that a 600mm folding rail is still over 12" long even when folded. With the telescoping rails, regardless of format, I always use a little 150mm rail section to hold the front and rear standards when packing the camera. This results in a compact unit about the size of a folding wooden field camera, plus an extension rail and additional rail section that take up very little room in my pack. I've always liked this about the ARCAs. You end up with a full featured monorail camera that is capable of using a wide range of lenses, that is fast and easy to set-up, yet packs down almost as small as a less rigid, more limited wooden field camera.

Kerry