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Thread: Wavy epson 9800 prints

  1. #1
    Founder QT Luong's Avatar
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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    I recently installed a Epson 9800. While I am very pleased with the color, I keep having surface
    problems with large prints (ie 36x48 inch). I print on Epson premium luster paper. After printing, I lay a sheet
    of tracing paper over the print, and then sandwich the print and the paper flat between two pieces of 40x60 foamcore board for a couple of days to let it cure. The problem is that the print
    isn't totally smooth and flat, but it always comes out of that process kind of wavy. The waves appear like repeated ondulations parallel to the printing direction, but do not run the whole width of the paper. They are quite noticeable if you look at the print under an angle. The lightjets of the same size that got didn't suffer
    at all from that problem.

    Question for those of you who operate a large format Epson printer: is it normal ? Did you notice the same
    problem, and if so, how were you able to eliminate it ?

    Tuan.

  2. #2
    Jack Flesher's Avatar
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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    Try NOT sandwiching the print, just let it dry uncovered for at least 12 hours. You can weight the corners to keep it from re-rolling.
    Jack Flesher

    www.getdpi.com

  3. #3

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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    Though I am no expert in LF ink printing, I took a course in the fall that touched on this subject a little bit. Maybe you are laying down too much ink and your paper is "wetting out". Are you using "out of the box" profiles or have you created them yourself? Are you using a RIP? Does your profiling process involve creating a "base linearization"?

  4. #4
    Founder QT Luong's Avatar
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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    Jack, do you mean not sandwiching the print at all, or first uncovered before sandwiching it ? I thought that sandwiching with absorbant paper was necessary to prevent outgasing. Dominique, for large prints, I use the Bill Atkinson profiles with the "standard" settings (as opposed to his favored method of laying extra ink).

  5. #5

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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    Rather than tracing paper, try using a paper that has better absorbative qualities like newsprint, the unprinted type used in drawing classes. The idea that the printer is laying down more ink than necessary is good too. Paul

  6. #6

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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    QT,

    From what I can figure out of your answer you are not using a RIP and calibration hardware to calibrate your workflow. It might be time for you to invest in a real RIP and spectrophotometer. The combination I saw demonstrated at school (RIP by BEST Color - now owned by EFI- with a GretagMacbeth Eye One) used profiling routines that started with a "base linearization" which was a process to find the ink limits for the particular printer, media, ink set combination. And though one can't really control for atmospheric conditions (relative humidity etc), I'm pretty sure these also have an effect on the process. This first step was meant to eliminate oversaturating your print media. This saves you ink, stops your paper from buckling with moisture and helps to define the maximum gamut supported by the paper. The base linearization is used as the foundation upon which to build colour calibration and profiling, performed in subsequent steps.

    I know that y0ur work is at a very high level, a hardware calibrated workflow will help you acheive better printed results. The probem is that often times the RIP costs as much as the printer you are trying to control.

  7. #7

    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    Like Jack wrote, I think leaving the print uncovered is the first thing to try. Covering it won't prevent outgassing, that's gonna happen in any event. I think that leaving the print open to the air would speed curing/drying/ending of outgasssing. Thats what I do with mine - I tape the corners to a board and let it hang a while before final trimming. If I was mounting and framing I'd let the print sit out for a few days at least - and I'd feel better if it was a week before it got sealed up.

    I'm using Atkinson profiles on Epson Semi Matte and have printed only a little on Luster, but they're both RC papers and seem very similar. And I'm using a 7600 and the first version of Ultrachrome inks, so not exactly the same set-up as you. I've never seen any waving problems on this printer but used to all the time on older models usually using "paper" paper - not RC. The RC part would seem to indicate that over wetting would be less of a problem since the surface is plastic. Anyway I suspect that its a differential in mositure content thats causing the problem and leaving the print open should let it all dry more quickly, evenly and throughly.

  8. #8
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    The outgassing problem is due to the use of glycols and glycerins in the ink carrier. They act as dispersants to keep the pigment particles from coming together. Think of them as clog prevention.

    The problem with the glycols and glycerins is that they evaporate very slowly. Ever see an antifreeze spill on a garage floor? Same stuff. Takes days if not weeks to evaporate, even in the hot days of summer.

    To effectively remove the glycols and glycerins from your print, you need two things - heat and air movement. To prove this to yourself, run an experiment. Choose a smallish print to frame, and get your matting and framing ready. Next, print the print on your 9800. When the print comes off, dry the print with a hand-held hair dryer - low heat, high fan. Support the print with your free hand on the back under where you are drying, and wave the dryer slowly back and forth. You'll feel the print heat up when the glycols are gone. Work your way across the print with the hair dryer. When done, immediately put the print in the matting and assemble the frame. Hang it where it gets some direct sun. If you dried the print properly, you won't get any outgassing.

    This folk lore that Epson came up with about making print "sandwiches" and leaving prints sitting around for days on end is a mystery for me, and a lot of other people besides. That is, it doesn't seem to work.

    There has been quite a lot of discussion of the Epson outgassing problem yahoo EpsonWideFormat group. IIRC you have to join the group to access the archives. The archives are hard to search, but if you look you'll find there was lots of discussion about outgassing and what to do about it there - a year or so back. These discussions apply to the 9800 too - even more so since the k3 inks have even more glycols and glycerins than the UltraChromes.

    Bruce Watson

  9. #9
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    Waviness of finished prints is not normal, no. It could be from a number of sources. I suspect two right off. First, your "sandwich" technique. Second, the general profile you are using - an ink limit problem.

    To determine if it's the first, let a print lay out and "cure" without your sandwich and see if it has the same flatness problems. As to the second, get a custom profile made for your printer/ink/substrate and see if that doesn't improve your gamut, shadow and highlight detail, and ink laydown.

    Bruce Watson

  10. #10

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    Wavy epson 9800 prints

    QT,
    I print using Premium Luster and K3 inks quite often, and can again assure you that the waves you are seeing are not the norm. Two questions:

    Have you tried the stock epson profiles (If so what settings)?

    What size waves are we talking about? 1 cm, 1 inch?

    for drying, I simply weight the corners, and this works perfectly.

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