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Thread: scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

  1. #1

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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    How to scan B&W negs with Vuescan? I haven't been able to figure this one out, since when I select B&W negs in the Input tab, only XP2 is available as a film choice under Ilford, and there's no Tri-X under Kodak either. Strangely, a lot of color neg films are available. What's going on?
    I have tried the available choices and always the scans look washed out and less contrasty than the negs do. I'm using an Epson 4870.
    Any explanations as for why the popular B&W films are not available, and how to get around this strange fact?
    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    it's not important to have an accurate profile for b+w film. all the preset does is apply some gamma curve to the scan, in an effort to come closer to some idea of neutral. but you're going to monkey with the curve anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

    color neg film is a different story ... if you don't have the right preset, the curves are likely to cross and you'll spend days getting them untangled.

  3. #3

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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    First, make sure you have the current version. Then on the preferences tab, set the histogram display to b&w (black and white points). Then set the film to Tmax 100. You will get a series of choices for D76 and Tmax developer. These represent different contrast curves. Set you black and white points to 0, then try the different curves until you find the one that spreads out the data as widely as possible without clipping. DO NOT try to get the image into final form in Vuescan, just get it scaled. You want the scans to look a little washed out because that means none of the data is clipped. Use Photoshop levels and curves for the fine tuning. If you use these on layers, then you can can tweak them forever and not damage the data.

  4. #4

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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    It sounds like you perhaps have a wrong selection under the "General" tab. For b&w film you should select "transparency" from the drop down menu in the "Original" box under the General tab and you should select "negative" in the "pos/neg" drop down menu. When you do that you should see all the available b&w films of each brand including Ilford. That's with Silverfast Ai, I'm not sure SE is the same but I think it is.
    Brian Ellis
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  5. #5
    tim atherton's Avatar
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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    I'm a big fan of just getting a raw 16 bit scan from vuescan (set it in the Output section). This then opens up looking like a really dark negative

    Then use NegPos to convert that within Photoshop (negpos has a bit of a learning curve... - I haven't pofiled B&W films with it, just fiddle witht hre basic settings - works great for colour neg too)

    Keep hunting around here (and DO read the manual):

    http://www.c-f-systems.com/Plug-ins.html
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  6. #6

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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    First of all, thanks to all those who replied. what I conclude from their posts is that with traditional B&W (not C41), unlike with color negs, it doesn't really matter with what film you started. What's important is how to get from the negative to the scanned file. Once the negative has been developed, it's irrelevant (as far as the scanning goes) what the film was, what the developer was, etc. I just have to accept the fact that the scan will not be perfect and that I will have to fiddle with the curve in Photoshop to get it right.

    Just the same, IMHO there is no good reason why Vuescan's interface doesn't make this clear. Why should a list of color films pop up in the Color tab when the user chooses B/W negatives in the Input tab? Why isn't the GUI more logical? Choose Generic in the Color tab and the only choice for B/W film is COLOR. Is this some kind of an in joke, so the Vuescan engineers can have a good laugh watching beginners stumble around in confusion? Yes, I should have read the documentation, but why does the GUI mislead users so that they have to read the documentation to understand it? I was in software for a long time, so I know that a good product's GUI can and should help the user and not confuse him/her, if the designer takes the trouble to do it right.

    I have tried the suggestions I received and they work. I thank the LFP Forum members for their help, but I fault the Vuescan engineers for obfusticating their GUI to the point where I (and presumably others as well) needed help.

  7. #7

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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    do yourself a favour and get a copy of silverfast. I have tried epson scan, vuescan and silverfast and whilst I don't like silverfasts interface it is much more intuitive and provides much simpler control of the scannning process. Especially if you have a difficult negative to scan such as a rescue job on a bad negative.

  8. #8

    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    "Vuescan engineers"? There is only one: Ed Hamrick.
    He is the author of Vuescan.
    Why not send him an email with your suggestions?
    (By the way, I agree that the black and white film choice interface is confusing.)

  9. #9

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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    Vuescan is less than 1/3 of a comperable Silverfast package with IT8 profiling and the like, plus it will run as many different scanners as you have. For me, that makes it worth taking a little time to figure it out. Once you figure it out, it gives you a lot of control and the ability to do a 4800 DPI scan and output a 2400 DPI file. Maybe we should collect vuescan tips for B&W and do a faq. Ed Hamrick is also very reponsive to suggestions and has made some changes in the recent versions that make LF scanning work much better - better virtual memory management so you can make BIG scans and downsample them inside Vuescan.

    The tip on working on RAW files is good - I did that for a while and it works very well. For most of my negatives I can do fine with the Vuescan conversion, as long as I am careful to not clip. If you set up any of these programs to get the best looking image on the screen, you are clipping at both ends and you limit your ability to fine tune later.

  10. #10
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    scanning B&W (HP5+) negs with Vuescan

    "Just the same, IMHO there is no good reason why Vuescan's interface doesn't make this clear."

    how about consistency? vuescan's interface doesn't make anything else clear either

    that being said, it's a good program and can give you first rate scans, especially from bw negs. i actually think its greater weakness is the inteface for color scans. it lacks anything like a curves tool, which is what color correction really demands. i've still gotten good scans from color negs, but it's much more difficult than it needs to be.

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