It seems that some people simply WISH that film would go away and grab every little tidbit they come across and post it on some forum to discourage everyone else. As already stated, there is plenty of large format film available. Most of the members on this forum (including myself) will be gone long before film.
I agree, Steve. The hard part is in having one you're really used to disappear. I think I could be happy with almost any decent 200-400 speed film after I got used to it. I've been shooting on HP5+ for a while now, based largely on the hopes that it will be around. (I was spoiled by the Ultrafine 400, which was really HP5+ at about 40% off the price, but that's gone now. The last little bit left is literally about 2% off.)
I really do miss Super XX and Royal Pan. And I don't think there's anything out there remotely close to Royal Pan X, ASA 1250; shot at 800 it gave a negative sort of like Tri-X 320 shot at 200. Kodak said it could be pushed to 4000 ASA, though I never tried it. Can anyone recommend a replacement for that one?
Steve, of course we have more films available today vs. before, as new films are introduce the older lines are not always discarded immediately.
I think articles like this do tell a story. The story is, these big companies are focussing on the future, and film is not the future. It does not mean they drop film today, but it also does not mean they won't drop it next quarter, or next year.
I wrote in a previous post a month ago..... this came from a very credible inside source. One of the largest film companies in the world made a corp. decision a year ago to discontinue all film products. The information was presented to major dealers....and the response was so strong, the dealers (who sold all their products, not just film) threatened, the company backed down and said they will continue to provide film for another year. That year is almost up. To me, this is a strong indication that film sales are not profitable, not a good sign. I would rather see them raise prices and be profitable then drop the line due to unprofitablity. Of course, I don't know how high they would have to be raised for them to be profitable....
I think it's these types of decisions made in corp. board rooms, that leave us film users vulnerable. It's the corporate environment, if the product line is loosing money and its in a downward market, just cut the hemoraging and move on. The best we can hope for, is when the big companies dump film, a few small companies continue the lines under a new name. Of course, this does not always occur as the stock holders could care less about these issues, unless of course the division could be sold for big bucks. But that is rare when a product line is loosing money to begin with. Sometimes smaller concerns can make profits whereas the bigger companies can not.
My fear is, either the new makers of the film, or the existing makers simply drop sheet film line, and continue with MF roll film. Since they are two different processes, it makes sense to cut the line which is not profitable. I think most sheet film users will soon be serious amateurs and some fine art type photographers, which use hardly any film compared to commercial users who have switched to digital.
Although there is nothing we can do about this except sit back and wait, it doesn't hurt to have sensible information.
I would like to propose a poll ...... we poll this forum to see how much dollars we spend a year in sheet film, roll film, etc, from the two big makers. This will help us get a feel for just how much film is being purchased by one group of LF shooters who do use film. If the amount is in the multi millions, I would be impressed, but if its small potatoes, well, that would be depressing. In such case, I may stock up like QT did!
Change is inevitable. Accept where we are currently with marvelous modern film offerings and try to not look a gift horse in the mouth.
Be very thankful that you have passionate people that are working hard to overcome the challenges of an evolving industry so that you (and other) ULF and LF shooters are not ignored in the transition.
It is far easier to be cynical than it is to attempt to assist in the favorable resolution either in an entrepreneurial role or as a legitimate consumer of T Max 400, Ilford ULF films or the Azo substitute.
so which film manufacturers make colour films in large format sizes and which of those manufacturers are making a profit from large format colour film?
I have to put in a word in support of Michael here. Of course, we have no idea how long Kodak will keep the B&W film lines running. But what Perez was quoted as saying in the interview didn't provide any new information one way or another. The fact that he has concluded that film is dead as a strategic direction for his business is old news, and doesn't say anything about how long they will run a profitable film production line that is spinning off cash that they can invest in developing the digital business.
For all we know, Kodak will pull the plug tomorrow. I don't think they will, but in any case nothing Perez said in that interview changed the fundamental picture.
Cheers, Michael! Yes, we do still have some lovely films. I'm just so sure my prints would be so much better than Weston's if I could just get some Royal Pan... ; )
I, too, am considering laying in a stock of 8x10 film, but I think HP5+ is pretty safe, at least for a few more years. I wonder if we'll become like wine connoisseurs, with a cellar of vintage emulsions, "ah, 2006 was a fine year for Efke 100..."
I'll be taking Michael and Paula's workshop in Sedona in a couple of weeks, (actually, it's the first "formal" education in large format I'll ever have had), and I'm happy to think I'll be supporting their work in some small way.
> so which film manufacturers make colour films in large format sizes
Well, only two I know of .....
> and which of those manufacturers are making a profit from large format colour film?
I am only guessing, but I assume NONE! At least by their standards.
The problem these companies have....they get so big, once revenue drops off, they loose money fast as the overhead stays, it takes them years to catch up with the loss revenues, by the time they scale back, its too late, as revenues continue to fall. This is sometimes why a small company needs to take this over and magnage the business from a different perspective. The good news is, color film seems to last a long time in the freeezer....
I have been told by the product mamangers of sheet film/professional film products at both Fujui and Kodak that there was an intitial drop in sheet film sales but this did not last and the sales have leveled off. Both told me sheet film sales are still profitable and they expect this to continue for the forseeable future.
Even if Kodak dropped film production - I have no inside info that this will happen - soemone else would pick up these divisions and continue the products.
Sorry, doomsayers. There are still and will continue to be more sheet films available than any of us will ever use.
The problem with Kodak (aside from their dolt of a CEO) is their shareholders. Kodak will no more make it in the digital world than they are currently making out in their film business. They sold out their film heritage and bet it all on digital, problem is Kodak was once a big name and a leader in their field; now they're just another fish in the pond. Digital camera companies like, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Nikon etc. will no doubt outsell Kodak many times over. Do Kodak digicams even sell outside the USA? I think it's just too competitive a market for Kodak to compete long term, especially taking into account their past management track record. The Japanese will have no problem taking on Kodak as a competitor.
Kodak is primarily a film company and they should have used that clout to fight hard to discredit digital at every turn. Instead, they saw the immediate cash infusion of digital and like a greedy child, just had to have a piece of the action. Fuji will most likely fare much better if they're like other Japanese companies; much better managed and much more efficient. Fuji can probably continue to produce film in smaller quantities and still turn a small profit enough to be sustainable. Besides, from what I understand, film is still a respectable medium in Japan and large format has quite a healthy following there.
As for film manufacturing being taken up by a smaller company, it's entirely possible. A smaller company can turn a profit from film, even a as niche product as long as they don't have shareholders.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks