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Thread: Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

  1. #1

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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    I have recently purchased the Epson 4800 printer for use primarily to print fine art B&W images.

    Given:
    All of my work is shot in 2 Ό or 4x5 negative, then scanned at 8,000 lines on my Howtek 8000 line drum scanner. I then take the scanned file into CS2 and drop the res to a working res of 4,000 lines for the 4x5 images and leave it at 8,000 lines for 2 Ό. The 8K file is then archived.

    After CS2 clean up and any burn/dodge is done to the working file, I then drop the 4K working resolution to 720 dpi from printing on the 4800. My CS2 settings are with Red River profiles loaded, printer output is set to Black Point Compensation –On, Premium Photo Glossy paper, 2880 DPI, High Speed Off. The set up is for CS2 to manage the printer.

    I’m partial to glossy paper as it has a similar look to the Oriental Seagul that I used to use when printing with an enlarger. Paper I’m currently printing on is the Red River UltraPro Gloss.

    Mission:
    Exchanging of printing set up techniques with other users of the Epson 4800 doing B&W work.

    I would like to hear what others with the Epson 4800 have found to be their optimum techniques used to generate the best looking print. To my knowledge, nobody is making a set of B&W inks for the 4800 that would go beyond what the defaults inks are from Epson.

    Any suggestions on refining my printing technique would be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Jack

  2. #2
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    Jack, a quick response now and more later but the one thing you can do that will make a big difference ... and we ahve tested this at our scanning workshops ...is to use a RIP ... you should try the harrington QTR RIP first as it is easy to download and inexpensive. Their are others that may be beetter for you but try this one first.

    I use it with the Red River papers.

  3. #3

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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    Jack,

    You might find this web site useful -
    groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

    There are plenty of advanced users (including 4800 users) willing to share their insights, as well as opportunities to exchange prints with other users and learn their workflow.

    Mark
    Mark McCarvill
    The miracles of creative art lie not in particular materials and methods, but in the basic concepts involved. – Ansel Adams

  4. #4
    Doug Dolde
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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    Here's a good article about the ColorByte rip and how you can avoid switching black cartridges.

    www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/phatte-black.shtml

  5. #5
    tim atherton's Avatar
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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    I'd have thought that as well as trying QTR you would also be better off using the Epson ABW B&W printing set-up? I know someone who is testing the paper below on the 4800 and this is what they are using

    Also, try waiting a few weeks for the new Crane Museo Silver Rag to come out - this is looking like a REALLY good paper with the K3 inks. It's a coated cotton based paper, not an RC paper 9though with a slightly warm rather than cool base).

    Very close to a semi--gloss/semi-matt Air Dried FB paper. DMax in the 2.4 to 2.43 range, great shadow and mid-tones, tough surface and a very nice sense of depth to the prints.
    You'd be amazed how small the demand is for pictures of trees... - Fred Astaire to Audrey Hepburn

    www.photo-muse.blogspot.com blog

  6. #6
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    To my knowledge, nobody is making a set of B&W inks for the 4800 that would go beyond what the defaults inks are from Epson.

    That is not my experience. If what you want is the highest quality B&W inkjet print possible then I think you have to look at the grayscale inks. The reason for this is that it's difficult to get B&W without some amount of color casts when using color inks. ICC profiles aren't designed for this service - the intent of an ICC profile is to define and manage what happens on the outer edge of the gamut. Grayscale printing occurs right in the center of the gamut, and is therefore more a function of the linearization of the printer than of the ICC profile. That, and more shades of gray (up to a point, perhaps six shades counting black) make for a smoother print, especially in the highlights.

    The very best B&W inkjet prints I have seen, including the K3s and ABW driver, were made with grayscale inks and a RIP that lets you control the individual ink channels.

    Now I'm not saying the K3s and the ABW driver are bad. It's actually a pretty impressive system. I'm just saying that it's not the state of the art for B&W printing. If however you want to print a mix of color and B&W, your machine is right up there.

    Bruce Watson

  7. #7

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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    "That is not my experience. If what you want is the highest quality B&W inkjet print possible then I think you have to look at the grayscale inks. The reason for this is that it's difficult to get B&W without some amount of color casts when using color inks. ICC profiles aren't designed for this service - the intent of an ICC profile is to define and manage what happens on the outer edge of the gamut. Grayscale printing occurs right in the center of the gamut, and is therefore more a function of the linearization of the printer than of the ICC profile. That, and more shades of gray (up to a point, perhaps six shades counting black) make for a smoother print, especially in the highlights.

    The very best B&W inkjet prints I have seen, including the K3s and ABW driver, were made with grayscale inks and a RIP that lets you control the individual ink channels. "

    this is getting really almsot too close to call now.

    Epson K3 ink printers with the likes of QaudtoneRIP or Colorbyte are so close to the likes of the MIS or Piezo inks there is really nothing in it. The Bowhaus RIP with grey inks is extremely good, but I have seen the same print come out better with K3 inks and QaudtoneRIP.

    This is especially going to change with the new generation of cotton based gloss/semi gloss coated papers coming out optimized for K3 type inks and using Photo Black inks rather than MK type blacks. This are starting to make most Peizo/MIS style prints look quite dull, and are close to giving Silver-Gelatin Fiber darkroom quality images. One thing these papers are giving are much smoother highlights and less grain than most matt cotton rag papers

  8. #8

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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    How do the best achievable b/w prints from the 4800 compare to silver prints in terms of resolution of detail and tonality?

  9. #9

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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    I don't quite see how the "Phatte" ink is different from the K3 matte black that one would use otherwise.

    It sounds like ColorByte has basically told Epson, "You had a good thing going with the 4000 in being able to easily switch between matte and photo black. You should have stuck with it!" (Paraphrased.)

    They've actually removed the reason and ink around which the K3 inks were designed. Of course, there were other improvements when they went to the K3's.

    I wonder what a comparison between their system and all the K3 inks (including light-light black) would look like. In skilled hands, just how much advantage is there to having that third light light black ink?

  10. #10
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Epson K3- 4800 – How to get the best B&W print?

    Neil you are basically right about ColorByte Phat Black except they also mix in a slight amount of gloss black ink into the mat black to achieve an even higher dmax on mat BW prints. But basically you are right. I use a 4000 with imageprint and it is a great combination if you need the highest quality and need to swith between color and B&W. They basically have adapted the 4800 to run like a 4000 but with K3 inks. I currently run a 4000 with ImagePrint. It is a first class professional setup. Studioprint is a pain in the but and should only be used by big labs who ned to lienarize their inks. A close associate of mine uses it.

    Glossy paper. Frankly, I think it is a mistake to print on glossy paper trying to make a print that looks like a silver print. Ink is a new and unique medium that has its own beauty. Right now ink looks best on mat paper. I have yet to see a museum quality ink print on glossy paper. They always look more like imitations of RC silver prints.

    I have tested Silver rag. It is not a glossy paper. It is kind of a unique surface close to airdried glossy papers. It is a step in the right direction and they deserve allot of credit for that but it is not good enough for me to switch from mat papers. It still has allot of gloss differential and some metamerism. We profiled it on our 9600 with Studio print and could just not make it sing like we can on MuseoII and Museo Max.

    My recommendation if you have the money and need to do b&w and color?... Imageprint Phat Black hands down. Only bw? QTR and Cone or MIS inks.

    My recent show was a mixture of silver and cibachrome prints from the museum collection and new ink prints. My best bw ink prints compared favourably with my best vintage silver prints. The color ink prints blew away the Cibachromes.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

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