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Thread: More 5x7 Enlarger info please

  1. #1

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    More 5x7 Enlarger info please

    Below are 2 5x7 enlarger threads. I need more information, with details. I want to go to a 5x7 enlarger. I now have a D-2 with a Zone VI VC head.

    Problems: The darkroom is in the basement with a clearance of 82". Over my enlarger I have a finished "slot" between the floor joists for the enlarger head of 13x23x7 deep. That gives me 89" of clearance over the enlarger. I could make the slot longer than 23" out from the wall but not deeper or wider. My D-2 is on a 34" high enlarger desk. I can make any size cabinet needed so this is not a problem.

    Budget: Willing to spend say, $2,500. I would rather spend less, buying used. I know if new, a VC head would break the budget. I only print B&W.

    Questions: Would a Durst 138 fit into my darkroom? With what type of head. Remember, no wider than 13". I enlarge 35mm, 6x7, 6x12, 4x5 and hopefully 5x7. Will a full set of condensers kill the budget, even used?

    Does the Zone VI type II really cover 5x7 well? How much enlargement can I expect, using the baseboard, with a 180mm lens on the 44" column? the 60"? I would be willing to wall mount but I would like to know.

    I have thought about finding a desktop Elwood, making a rolling stand and wheeling it into the darkroom when enlarging 5x7. I have the room to do this but not have two enlargers set up all the time. Is this a good Idea? Any other enlargers I should be on the lookout for? If so, please tell me their weaknesses too. Please nothing that I would have to find parts from the elves of the Blace forest or inner Mongolia.

  2. #2

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    More 5x7 Enlarger info please

    Jim,

    If all you want is a very basic enlarger, an Elwood wood (pun intended) be the kindest to your budget. The diffusion discs aren't available, so if the Elwood you find dosen't have one, you'll have to think around that. Milk glass? Frosted glass? A cold light? You're on your own (not really much of a problem---my 8x10 works fine without the oem diffuser) For MG paper, you'll have to rig up a filter holder of some kind. The "anti gravity" spring on mine that acts as a counter-wieght for the head was broke, but it can be replaced easily with one from a D-2(probably less of an issue with a 5x7 model) AFAIK, wooden parts I can make myself but some of the alloy castings, especially the base, are irreplaceable so don't buy anything that looks cracked or defective. Mine has some wood to wood bearing surfaces that support the (heavy) head that needed sistering since 80 years or so of professional use wore away enough wood to cause an alignment problem but once again its not much of an issue with an Elwood---some Elmer's, a few wood screws and a couple of "shoes" made from oak and the beast is alive once more. Ask yourself this: Would you rather have a Model A or a Lexus automobile? If you'd be happy with an "A" you'd probably be happy with an Elwood. If you'd rather drive a Lexus, spare yourself and look elsewhere---Elwoods aren't for you!

    My personal rule regarding Elwood pricing is: If you paid more for the enlarger than you did for shipping it---you paid too much!

    Good luck!
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  3. #3
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    More 5x7 Enlarger info please

    I had an Elwood 5x7 for a while - two different ones, actually - and found them to be just a huge hassle to work with, especially after being used to my smooth-operating LPL 4500II with dichroic head. Between heat problems, uneven illumination, alignment problems, and filter hassles, I never did get a clean, sharp print out of them. It's conceivable that the better of the two could have been fixed up to work a bit better, but in the end I decided I had neither the time nor the energy to fuss with it.

    I agree with John on one thing - you don't want to pay very much for an Elwood. The real price is the sweat equity you have to invest to make one function semi-satisfactorily.

  4. #4

    More 5x7 Enlarger info please

    Jim, I would recommend an Omega E. While I also have a Durst 183 (5x7 head on an 8x10 base) that I picked up for $140 that is an absolute wonder of mechanical precision, the Omega is a lot easier to live with and dirt easy to convert to VC by simply adding an old Nikor/Honeywell 6x7 colorhead over the condensers in place of the original bulb. The Durst head requires a 10 inch width until you get down to the neg carrier - but it gets awfully high, awfully fast and requires more than 7 feet at a minimum. I had an old Solar in the past and unless you have the graduated center filter with it, the hot spot is objectionable. If you really want to spend a lot of money, the Zone VI might be the way to go, I don't remember them being that tall. Anyone have one?

  5. #5

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    More 5x7 Enlarger info please

    Here are some measurements for the Type 2 Zone VI:

    Assuming that you want to raise the lens stage to it's highest point, you need 65" of clearance above where you mount the enlarger column base with the 60" column. You will probably never need to raise the negative stage that high, because that would raise it almost to the negative stage, but it's at that point that you can no longer extend the enlarger, lens stage, etc. As to room height, you can do the addition, depending on how high off the floor you mount the enlarger.

    The opening ("slot") is probably large enough for the Zone VI. The issue is only whether the two lens stage columns have room to rise, versus the width of the enlarger head. (The head width is 12", but the two columns span a width of only 6".) If you were to wall mount the enlarger, and your column is at the proper angle, the two vertical columns from the lens stage are 16" away from the wall.

    The Type 2 has more than enough light for full 5x7. The Type 1 was really an oversized 4x5, and it did not have a sufficient head for 5x7. It was not a 5x7 enlarger.

    With the 60" column and at full enlarger extension, the negative stage rises 55" above the enlarger base. At full lens extension, the lens stage is 11" away from the negative stage. Using the basic lens formulae, this should give you enough information to determine enlargements. For close enough, assume this number to be 42" for the 47" column. I set up a spreadsheet to figure all of this, but it's not available.

    The two EBay prices I remember are a $1400 Buy It Now for the 5x7 and 8x10 vc heads, 60" column, and some accessories, but without the adaptor (that's a big deal) for the 8x10 head. The second price was for a complete outfit with both the 8x10 and 5x7 vc heads for $4100. I couldn't believe that one, but that's what it sold for. That's just about the price of the same outfit new. There've been some recent ones on ebay; you might check completed auctions. There's also a service on a webpage somewhere that keeps track of older auctions. Not sure of what it's called, though.

    If you get a Zone VI, you might consider also getting the Beseler adaptor while they're still available. This gives you flexibility for a color head, Aristo, etc. As a possible substitute for the lack of available negative carriers, you could take one you can get a hold of and adapt it (by cutting a large enough hole) for Omega, Durst, or other negative carriers. I got a bunch of Durst flat negative carriers that measure just over 5x7 that I can easily fit on a Zone VI negative carrier.

  6. #6

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    More 5x7 Enlarger info please

    Jim, I would get the Durst 138. It is an outstanding enlarger and would work in your situation. I had a 138 and sold it to get the Durst 183 like the one mentioned by Chauncey. While I like the 183 with motorized head and baseboard movement. I sometimes wish I had kept the 138. My darkroom height is about the same as yours and the Durst 138 was the right size. I once owned the Omega E and while is was a good enlarger, it is not a Durst. I would stay away from the Elwood. While a number of people use them, I think you would be happier with the Durst. If you can find a used Aristo VC head, it really brings down the height of the enlarger head. The Aristo VCL4500 in reality covers 5x7 and Atisto makes a 5x7 adapter for it. That is what I use on my 5x7 head.

  7. #7

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    More 5x7 Enlarger info please

    Jim:

    Forgive me if I missed this in the thread, but I didn't notice anyone mentioning that the Durst 138S is floor-standing, and has a table which is vertically adjustable (via a cool air-line footpedal, no less). So, you don't actually need huge head room -- when you want to make an extra-large print, you can just drop the table.

    My basement darkroom has a ceiling which is about 7'2", and I manage fine.

  8. #8

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    More 5x7 Enlarger info please

    Don, I tried to e-mail you. NG. How wide is the head and what type is it? And yes, I know that it's a floor model.

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